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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    5,712

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
    If ever find an inspector going through my hives (not even sure if we have them in my state)
    Montana certainly does have apiary inspectors. In fact, if you have more than 5 hives you are required to register with the MT Department of Agriculture. Details here:
    http://agr.mt.gov/agr/Consumer/honeybees/
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,804

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Thankfully our state ran out of money for county inspectors decades ago... in 1986 our moron showed up unannounced at a remote countryside site because most sites here are suburban and he probably was underqualified to arouse bees in a neighborhood. He came in June, middle of the flow, tore down a double brood chamber with six filling honey supers and found what he claimed was AFB in the brood chamber. When I harvested the 180 pound crop I did find three cells in the brood with some kind of scale. The hive lived happily on with no outbreak of AFB. He had placed a burn notice. It was already illegal to burn in the county due to smog regulations. I offered to bring the hive to his site of choice for burning, and never heard from him again. I still use the boxes he scrawled AFB on and have not had any consequential AFB problems over the years. I doubt that at the time he had 1% of the bee working experience that I had and probably never did get any.
    Last edited by odfrank; 03-15-2013 at 09:24 PM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post

    Laws are there to protect us from the government.
    Exactly what is wrong with people these days. They forget THEY are the government.

    Laws are in place to keep our civilization functioning and keep the strong from overpowering the weak.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    I would call just to hear the inspector's observations. We don't have inspectors here, thankfully but I wouldn't object to a surprise inspection if we did.
    Last edited by Sticky Bear; 03-15-2013 at 09:51 PM.
    Jack Moore ~ Sticky Bear Apiary
    Zone 7a ~ Elev: 4840ft. ~ https://www.facebook.com/StickyBearApiary

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Finksburg MD
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Justus
    The inspector who checked your hives was probably Bill Troupe. He is responsible for all Carroll Co and all the western counties. With so much ground to cover, he usually gets to your hives once every three years. He actually inpects all year round and brings a dog trained to smell foulbrood.
    He will be a speaker at the Carroll Co. Beekeepers short course this Wednesday evening coming up. I welcome you to come to the class and I will introduce you to him. He may even bring his dog with him. The class is held at Carroll Community College in Westminster.
    He is very knowledgeable and very friendly and helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Arlee MT USA
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Laws are in place to keep our civilization functioning and keep the strong from overpowering the weak.
    Laws are just a few words and piece of paper. The only thing that ever protected the weak was for the weak to get stronger, or get stronger friends.

    Exactly what is wrong with people these days. They forget THEY are the government.
    What a great idea, I think somebody tried to start a country with that as a founding principle once but it didn't turn out that way.

    Bee inspectors are NOT part of MY government. As far as I am concerned they are enemy spies at the worst and busybodies at the best. Neither is welcome on my property.

    Personally I don't think its worth dying for to go poke around inside someone else property just to see if they are doing it the right way. I guess thats why I'm not a house breaker or a bee inspector.

    What are we going to have next, people who come and look through your dirty laundry to see if you change your underwear often enough? Maybe someone would like to come inspect my cats litter box and see if she has any parasites. Heck, maybe we should just stop having bees at home and turn them all into the government so they can manage them for us.

    Montana certainly does have apiary inspectors. In fact, if you have more than 5 hives you are required to register with the MT Department of Agriculture. Details here:
    Then they better call before asking me to bend over or they are going to have a real bad day.

    I welcome you to come to the class and I will introduce you to him. He may even bring his dog with him. The class is held at Carroll Community College in Westminster.
    He is very knowledgeable and very friendly and helpful.
    Its good to know the inquisitor who checked the OP's hives was competent. Still doesn't change the fact that its a violation of basic human rights.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by justusflynns View Post
    I'd prefer to avoid the possibility of creating an adversarial relationship. That's why I posted my questions here.


    That's why I have reasonable questions.


    I couldn't care less. And that has nothing to do with what has already been done to my hive.
    You shouldn't fear asking questions which tghe inspection report doesn't make clear and the Inspector should be willing and able to answer in detail any question you have. I am surprised that inspections are done under such conditions. I run hundreds of hives and don't tear hives apart when conditions are as you report.

    If you don't get satisfactory answers from the Inspector call his/her boss. You have the Right to know and they are Civil SERVANTS. They are there to serve your needs, not theirs. Speaking as an Apiary Inspector of 20 years experience.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
    My bet is
    The inspector
    Looked into your hives
    The inspector
    Didn't pull brood
    The inspector
    Verified the brood and amount of bees
    The inspector
    Gave you an A on hive health
    Id say Your inspector is knowledgeable enough to
    Inspect without dismantle

    JMHO
    There is no way to do that w/out dismantling the hive and looking at each frame.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Arlee MT USA
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    If you don't get satisfactory answers from the Inspector call his/her boss. You have the Right to know and they are Civil SERVANTS. They are there to serve your needs, not theirs. Speaking as an Apiary Inspector of 20 years experience.
    So since you may actually know something about the subject, did you perform inspections without permission/notification or did you actually work with your beekeepers? What is the common practice?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,044

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul McCarty View Post
    and keep the strong from overpowering the weak.
    oh, Wow! Is that ever a pipe dream.

    For the most part laws are in place to keep the majority of people happy. The laws may not be fair or the enforcement of the laws may not be fair. But usually when they don't keep the majority happy they are changed. But not in the case where the strong and powerful are concerned. That is what strong and powerful means.

    In the case of the unannounced inspector, did someone file a complaint that caused the inspector to do the inspection that day? I would like to know that. I don't think you will find the answer to this case on beesource. The answer lies in the department of inspection. You must inquire or your brain will just go off the deep end, probably for no good reason.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,712

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    You must inquire or your brain will just go off the deep end, probably for no good reason.

    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,464

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Inspectors get a bad rap and are misunderstood for the most part. I have had the opportunity to meet many inspectors. Most of which were nice, personal, and willing to help out.
    It would behoove anyone to ask an inspector if you have any questions. After all, they ARE the professionals and have seen it all basically.
    I once called a building inspector on his cell phone #(which he gave me earlier). He answered, gave me the answer to my question and THEN told me he was on vacation in Florida at the time of my call! lol He talked to me for over 20 minutes after that.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pike, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
    Laws are just a few words and piece of paper. The only thing that ever protected the weak was for the weak to get stronger, or get stronger friends.



    What a great idea, I think somebody tried to start a country with that as a founding principle once but it didn't turn out that way.

    Bee inspectors are NOT part of MY government. As far as I am concerned they are enemy spies at the worst and busybodies at the best. Neither is welcome on my property.

    Personally I don't think its worth dying for to go poke around inside someone else property just to see if they are doing it the right way. I guess thats why I'm not a house breaker or a bee inspector.

    What are we going to have next, people who come and look through your dirty laundry to see if you change your underwear often enough? Maybe someone would like to come inspect my cats litter box and see if she has any parasites. Heck, maybe we should just stop having bees at home and turn them all into the government so they can manage them for us.



    Then they better call before asking me to bend over or they are going to have a real bad day.



    Its good to know the inquisitor who checked the OP's hives was competent. Still doesn't change the fact that its a violation of basic human rights.

    You should check your states Apiary law, it may allow inspectors to come onto your property without permission. Inspectors are there to check for AFB which most states have laws requiring something be done, pending lab results. I've inspected for two states and both required prior notice as a courtesy. Depending on circumstances, he may not have been anticipating the cooler weather but had to perform the inspection anyway. He probably would have looked quickly and closed up the hives. However, I wouldn't have dared to inspect a hive at those temps, why, because I wouldn't open my own hives during those temps

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,712

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Montana Code:
    80-6-201. Apiaries -- powers and duties of department. (1) To prevent the spread of pests and contagious and infectious disease among bees and apiaries, the department may:
    (a) enter private land containing an apiary site and fly over or enter any farm, railroad right-of-way, or other grounds or premises containing an apiary site to determine the health or ownership of the bees. The department shall provide at least 24 hours' notice to a private landowner before entering private land.

    More here:
    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/80/6/80-6-201.htm
    Clearly, Inspectors are required to provide 24 hours notice, but they are not required to gain permission from the land/hive owner.

    If you are paranoid, this part is especially interesting:
    (4) The department may enter into agreements with the United States department of agriculture, other federal agencies, other states, municipal authorities, and individual Montana beekeepers in carrying out the provisions of this part.

    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/80/6/80-6-201.htm
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    South Hero, Vermont
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    I always remember that the inspectors are there to ensure that hives infected with foulbrood do not spread this to other hives in the area. As a past commercial beekeeper here in Vermont, there used to be more concerns with hives that were allowed to foster foulbrood year after year and soon it could be like an epidemic in the area (if hives were'nt treated). While I agree with all of you about government, I try not lose focus on the purpose of bee inspecting---I never view the inspectors as a threat, but a way for you to improve your hives. If your hives are unhealthy then it only makes sense to be aware of it and do something about it----no one benefits from unhealthy hives.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
    So since you may actually know something about the subject, did you perform inspections without permission/notification or did you actually work with your beekeepers? What is the common practice?
    Policy was to make contact by phone to arrainge inspections. It was not always convenient for the beekeeper to be present, but the option was avilable. Appointments were hard to set up, having so many Apiarys to attend to. But if the owner insisted arraingements were made.

    Doing inspectiopns w/out notification only makes for hurt feelings. I was turned away a number of times. Which was no big deal since there were plenty of other locations to inspect.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,105

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    There is no way to do that w/out dismantling the hive and looking at each frame.
    Explain

    FWIW
    I have never had an inspector dismantle

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
    My bet is
    The inspector
    Looked into your hives
    The inspector
    Didn't pull brood
    The inspector
    Verified the brood and amount of bees
    The inspector
    Gave you an A on hive health
    Id say Your inspector is knowledgeable enough to
    Inspect without dismantle

    JMHO
    You can't determine hive health w/out removing frames and looking at the brood combs. That's where one would find AFB if it were present. You can't determine the presence or absence of varroa w/out sampling bees in some manner. Which also requires handling frames.

    What you describe is not an Inspection.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pinellass County, Florida
    Posts
    1,105

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    You can't determine hive health w/out removing frames and looking at the brood combs. i said nothing of not removing frames I said didn't pull brood That's where one would find AFB if it were present yes one could find it as you speak and it could be found with smell and other hints that would then require more in depth tests . You can't determine the presence or absence of varroa w/out sampling bees in some manner.
    bees can be acquired for sampling without pulling brood or dismantling hive
    Which also requires handling frames. Again I said Nothing of NOT handling

    What you describe is not an Inspection.
    it most certainly could be with a knowledgeable keeper/inspector
    . Don't you just love B Source

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default Re: 46 Degrees and Windy/Inspector Showed Up

    I'm not going to argue w/ you tommyt, you just don't know what you are talking about and I'm not syre what you are talking about. I guess by "pulling brood" you must not mean removing brood frames from the hive and visually looking at the capped brood, but something else I guess.

    Smell testing for AFB is very inaccurate. One will miss anything other than a full blown broken down case. Unless perhaps you have a nose like a dog, which MD has used to check hives for AFB but no longer does, afaik.

    How do you do an ether roll (the most accurate and my prefered method) or powdered sugar roll w/out removing frames and scooping bees off of a capped brood frame?

    Maybe my use of the word "dismantle" was misunderstood. What I meant by dismantle was to remove the cover(s) and then removing the frames, so visual inspection of each and every frame could be done.

    How do you inspect a beehive for diseases and pests of honeybees? How does your State Apiary Inspector go about doing an inspection for diseases and pests?

    The purpose of inspecting beehives, as far as a State Authority is concerned, is to determine the state of health of beehives w/in a State. If all one does is check to see if a hive is alive and of good strength and doesn't smell like AFB that doesn't determine what needs to be determined.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

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