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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    the only thing I know for certain is that everyone stands strongly behind their convictions
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #122
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Maybe the confusing word is 'subjectively'. I said that I could look at my failures subjectively and claim that none were varroa related. But...if I looked objectively every one has varroa as a major element. Does that clarify it.
    Gotta go...got some of my bees in the trees already....sheeesh.
    Would you please send that nectar flow North. Nothing much coming in here in SC.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  3. #123
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    the only thing I know for certain is that everyone stands strongly behind their convictions
    now that's more truth than poetry ian.

    what time of year is the 3-5% rate detrimental, and do you still have it this high sometimes despite treatment?
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  4. #124
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    the only thing I know for certain is that everyone stands strongly behind their convictions
    Oh, I don't know about that. I'm just dealing w/ life as it is for me.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  5. #125
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    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    4,993

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Oops, nevermind!

    After I posted I realized that I might be wrong and revised the post. But Mark was too fast for me.


    The bulk of SC is to the east of GA. But since the border does not run north-south and runs at an angle, there is a portion of SC that is north of a portion of GA.

    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 03-13-2013 at 05:12 PM. Reason: correction
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  6. #126
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    All I know is GA is South of SC. But thanks.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    now that's more truth than poetry ian.

    what time of year is the 3-5% rate detrimental, and do you still have it this high sometimes despite treatment?
    oh, ya, thats a fall time mite level, my spring is under 1%
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #128
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    Jan 2003
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Oh, I don't know about that. I'm just dealing w/ life as it is for me.
    as am I, you cant say it isnt fun though talking about this kinda stuff, . ?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #129

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Would you please send that nectar flow North. Nothing much coming in here in SC.
    It hardly qualifies as a nectar flow here...just a few of the bees jumping the gun.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  10. #130
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    oh, ya, thats a fall time mite level, my spring is under 1%

    thanks ian. do you have some stubborn hives that are still that high after treatments in the fall, and are you saying that it's pretty certain they won't make it through 'til spring?
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  11. #131

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    "I consider counting mites as a way of evaluating Varroa resistance to be fraught with all sorts of shortcomings and difficulties. --Kirk Webster
    You see...that's only one part of my list. The other is....'Mites aren't a problem in my hives'....and I bet ya twenty bucks that Kirk Webster will readily admit that mites are a problem in his hives.
    If ya don't count but acknowledge it's a problem....then I say fine.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  12. #132
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    as am I, you cant say it isnt fun though talking about this kinda stuff, . ?
    Check my Post total for the answer.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  13. #133
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    mark, it's just now starting here in northeast alabama. i'll bet you'll see some this weekend when the temps get up there.
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  14. #134

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by beeman2009 View Post
    WHY does the fact that one keeps bees as a hobby or commerically for a living have anything to do with varroa?
    This is an excellent question!
    The truth, in my opinion, is that size of the operation doesn’t have anything to do with varroa. It has to do with objectivity.
    Commercial beekeepers depend on their bees for their living. To be successful they must not allow themselves to be directed by hopes or desires but by practicality. They are pragmatists. They look at the evidence objectively and act accordingly.
    The backyard beekeeper often so badly wants his bees to survive varroa without treatments that he may allow his hope to interfere with his objectivity.
    Michael Bush quoted Kirk Webster about not counting mites. But I’m quite certain that Kirk Webster is a pragmatist….and that he doesn’t need to count mites to know they’re a problem. I do random mite testing…but even without I know they are the most serious problem my bees have.
    We see, every day, posts from new beekeepers who’ve had their hives collapse. And, nearly without exception, when they list their suspected culprits….they fail to mention the most likely. Why do you suppose that might be?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #135
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    thanks ian. do you have some stubborn hives that are still that high after treatments in the fall, and are you saying that it's pretty certain they won't make it through 'til spring?
    I usually only treat once, and I treat during the spring. maybe an Oxalic somewhere in there also

    but to your question, yes and no, there is no real answer to that question, because it all depends on the viral loads in the hives and that is an unknown. If the mites bring low levels of viral infections, then 5% is a breese, but if the mites are loaded with virus, looks like under 2%ish is what we need.
    It seems as if the viral loads over the last few years has been consistantly heavy

    Couple of years ago, when this particular area had operators seeing heavy losses through winter, I had put my hives in with a 4% load, Got kicked with a 35% loss that winter. I treated with Apivar that spring, and it turned my hives condition right around. through my rounds I had forgot two hives just because that what happens sometimes, one big hive and one medium strength hive.
    When I got back to them a couple of weeks later, the big hive had crashed and was crawling with DFV and the medium strength hive was completely dead. The rest of the yard was booming.

    my mite counts are my operational average counts. I treat on a operation stand point. I use to treat by the yard but my treatment schedule got to confusing from year to year as I moved my hives in and around. I can not get away without a treatment at least once a year
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Check my Post total for the answer.
    no doubt !
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  17. #137
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    understood ian. thanks for taking the time to explain.
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  18. #138
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    no prob squarepeg, if that is your real name,.?

    like how your so objective !
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #139
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    Jul 2010
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    lancaster pa usa
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Ian when in the spring do you treat

  20. #140
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    We get them out of the shed by end of March beginning of April, I try to have my treatment in within that week of them out so that the treatment is done by the time I make my split round in May
    I find Apivar works best when the bees are active, I find the bees more active during the spring then in the fall. Cool fall weather can stop the treatment time.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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