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  1. #821
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
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    1,256

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Sorry... somehow I double-posted.

  2. #822
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    897

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I watched the videos Tim Ives has posted on youtube. The hive he follows throught the three videos looks very strong. It was surprising to see how strong it was in March 2012. Although, the winter last year was non-existant. I wonder how that hive is doing this year?

    I wonder what his mite levels are like?

    He gives his bees a lot of space. I wonder if they truly need that with his management system or that is just how he does it? He mentioned adding foundation but nothing about cell size or type of foundation.

    As I was watching the videos I had a feeling that there are some common themes with how Michael Palmer keeps his bees. Both have supers stacked higher than I want to work. Although, it would be nice to have colonies that strong.

    Tom

  3. #823
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post

    Daniel Y, I cant track down where he talks a whole lot about this.
    Can you explain to me why you think these wax makers are so critical to treatment free beekeeping?
    Why call them wax makers, why not young bees?
    The comment about wax makers in this thread and was second hand. I am not interested in if he actually said it. I am not interested in weather it makes treatment free beekeeping more successful. I am interested in how he believes he influences wax makers in the hive at a time when others say they are not present.

    Walt calls them wax makers not me. I would assume it is for the same reason he gives for distinguishing between a reproductive swarm and a crowding swarm. When describing a bowl of fruit it is fine to refer to any fruit as fruit. But when discussing apples and oranges you must describe apples and oranges. Young bees are a bowl of fruit. A bowl that contains many different fruits. Walt is attempting to describe the individual fruits in the bowl. So he refers in his writing to wax makers, house keepers, guard bees cell cleaners, honey processors. All tasks that woudl be performed by young bees.

    In addition my interest in Wax Makers specifically are two fold.

    1. Walt claims his methods will not work if you do not have drawn brood comb. The single main reason for this claim is that wax makers are not present in the hive. I have found this is not so in my hive and my bees are in fact drawing foundation. and am looking for any reasons why.

    2. Walt describes a three week period from the swarm cut off date to the foraging for nectar. This lull as he calls it is due to the need to rear wax makers and house bees. IF this rearing of house bees wax makers honey processors etc could be stimulated pre swarm cut of. some this three week period might be reduced.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  4. #824
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,617

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I am hearing that Tim says an abundance of wax makers in late winter early spring is critical to his methods of keeping bees treatment free.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    The comment about wax makers in this thread and was second hand. I am not interested in if he actually said it. I am not interested in weather it makes treatment free beekeeping more successful. I am interested in how he believes he influences wax makers in the hive at a time when others say they are not present.
    so it has nothing to do with treatment free beekeeping then, just good old beekeeping
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #825
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    so it has nothing to do with treatment free beekeeping then, just good old beekeeping
    My specific interest doesn't. That is why I asked for sources of information leading to it. Why woudl I go to another forum to ask for more information on something that was said in this thread? I did not then take this entire conversation into the nether realms over it. everyone that deludes themselves about the rules did. Including you.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #826
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,617

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I did not then take this entire conversation into the nether realms over it. everyone that deludes themselves about the rules did. Including you.
    Im not making that point, perhaps your quarrel is with someone else.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #827
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    My apologies. I misjudged the intent of your comment.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #828
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,617

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    So he refers in his writing to wax makers, house keepers, guard bees cell cleaners, honey processors. All tasks that woudl be performed by young bees.
    got to love those young bees !
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #829
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,186

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    So how does one enhance these populations of young waxmaker bees? After the flow I see little to no comb building...
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  10. #830
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I find they will draw comb if.
    1. it is checkerboarded, or what I call put within the boundary the bees consider home.
    2. they have sugar water or other liquid food source. any nectar flow at all for example.

    I found that placing sugar water on my hive last late summer early fall did get my bees to draw an additional box of med foundation. they filed it with honey and I used it as winter stores on two late trap outs I had.

    I am seeign this lack of checkerboarding at work again right now. I placed med full of foundation on top of my hive. and the bees have moved into it but are not yet drawing the foundation. I could add drawn and filled frames from one of my other hives. or I can ad sugar water. or I can do both. Any one of the above I say would cause the bees to start drawing that foundation. I intend to wait a week and find they have done nothing. then do one or the other or both of the above and see what they do in the following week.
    Today will be one week since I added this foundation.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  11. #831
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Grey County, ON, Canada
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I find they will draw comb if.
    1. it is checkerboarded, or what I call put within the boundary the bees consider home.
    2. they have sugar water or other liquid food source. any nectar flow at all for example.

    I found that placing sugar water on my hive last late summer early fall did get my bees to draw an additional box of med foundation. they filed it with honey and I used it as winter stores on two late trap outs I had.
    Bees under two weeks old will draw wax whenever stimulated by gathering and more specifically curing sugar of any kind so long as it's 13 C or 55 F outside... I just don't see what that could have to do with varroa control...

  12. #832
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,286

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    The comment about wax makers in this thread and was second hand. I am not interested in if he actually said it. I am not interested in weather it makes treatment free beekeeping more successful. I am interested in how he believes he influences wax makers in the hive at a time when others say they are not present.
    Answers to questions like these can be found in many places in Beekeeping Literature, such as "Practical Beekeeping", "The Encyclopedia of Beekeeping", "ABCand XYZ of Beekeeping", etc., etc.

    You may find specific answers to questions which arise from reading Walts' texts and watching Tims' videos by corresponding directly w/ them since they do not wish to spend much time on beesource.com having their thoughts and ideas responded to by those who throw stones at them.

    May you do well in your search for greater knowledge of the things in which you are interested.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  13. #833

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    since they do not wish to spend much time on beesource.com having their thoughts and ideas responded to by those who throw stones at them.
    Mark...when did this happen.....and who did it?!
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #834
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,286

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I believe that if you reviewed Threads that Walt has Posted and Threads he has participated in he would characterize comments in that way. Though I can't really speak for him. Discussing this doesn't further the Thread, imo.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  15. #835
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    so it has nothing to do with treatment free beekeeping then, just good old beekeeping
    That's the same thing Randy Oliver said when he was here

  16. #836
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    So how does one enhance these populations of young waxmaker bees? After the flow I see little to no comb building...
    The most proficient wax builders are young 8-18 day old bees. So wax builders are in relations to the number of brood frames. But there is a maximum limitation to how many frames can be laid out in a 21 day cycle. What are maximum limitations? Queens can only lay so many eggs per season, bees can only draw up so much new comb and can only grow to a certain limitation. Which is what I've been working on to figure out. Yes...A LOT of trail/error.
    My theory on how I'm getting around mites is bees are brooding up way earlier in a 3 deep system vs 2 deep. 2 deep systems are on the verge of starvation by March on my area. A 3 deep will already have a brood cycle in, plus queens have 50% more room in a 3 deep vs 2. Drone brood doesn't start till around 3/11 when fresh pollen starts coming on. Mites need drone brood to be most prolific. Mites have to many immature females in worker brood. Plus I suspect, to cold for mites in late Feb. Once brood is capped very little of the cluster is on capped brood. Cluster will cover the open brood. Which I seen several years back when going to reverse hive bodies, because that's what all the oldtimers around me said you had to do. But once getting into bottom deep and it was 60% laid out with capped brood(which I thought was dead first time I seen it). I just put everything back together and kept watching closely. Few weeks later a crazy amount of bees. Rechecked bottom deep all laid out again with open brood.
    The more hives I got the easier it was to see the average of what was going on. Anything below average got split, above average got supered.
    Supering was a lot of trial/error.I'll go over that later.

    Since there's a lot of questions,speculation and opinions on what I'm doing on here. According to advanced search of my name. Probably best if I read thru and just create a new thread..

  17. #837
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,145

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Yes that would be interesting.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  18. #838
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,360

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    In this video, Danny explains how they went from typical treatment management to non treatment. Its worth watching. The video of Binfords talk is good too. How the family business started is kinda funny.
    http://www.beeweaver.com/bee-breedin...-weaver-part-1

  19. #839
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    North Liberty, IN
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    In upstate Ohio, from Oct to March.... I doubt there are many wax moths flying....
    Same as Northern Indiana. Supers go on late March and come off early Oct. I've never had a problem with wax moths.

  20. #840
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    If boxes are not stored where it will freeze, wax moths can be a significant problem even in cold areas.

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