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  1. #601
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by acbz View Post
    I'm pretty sure I know what their opinion of going treatment free would be.
    Well, that is what I call plain speaking. NOT!! Please tell us what you mean.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  2. #602
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Now you've done it Aaron.

    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #603

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Please tell us what you mean.
    My sense of his post is that Bill Dahle recognizes that much of his losses were a result of varroa. With that in mind….one wouldn’t expect him to even consider going treatment free.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  4. #604
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    ...it's amazing how people justify what they want to hear.

    No, Allen did not visit Dee "recently"....2005 was the most recent.
    No, none of the statements regarding Dee's numbers or production are accurate...and no, I won't give further details on her numbers....just as I won't betray the confidences of those posting on this thread who have told me things confidentially.
    No, Dee doesn't keep nucs anywhere.

    This had a potential to be an interesting topic....an opportunity that has been squandered by those that feel the best way to learn what someone else is doing by talking louder, and listening less. Honestly, you want me to give more details when the facts are trumped by speculation. If you don't believe what I say, why do you want to ask questions.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  5. #605

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Dan was there any mention of her AFB problem?
    Oooohhhhh...now you're asking for trouble!
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #606

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    .This had a potential to be an interesting topic....an opportunity that has been squandered by those that feel the best way to learn what someone else is doing by talking louder, and listening less.
    I couldn't have said it better myself!
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  7. #607
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Dean,
    I haven't seen enuf in the way of examples to make me think that attempting treatment free beekeeping on a 400 plus colony operation would be worth the risks and investment. I don't have the monetery cushion. And three or four examples tell me that others are also not yet willing to go that route.

    Maybe, some time in the future things will be different, but it will take someone, a number of someones, running hundreds and thousands, migrating and doing pollination. That is the way I see it.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  8. #608
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,999

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Well hopefully, one day we'll all be varroa mite treatment free, if efforts are continued to find a genetic solution, ie, resistant bees.

    Not saying that day will come cos I don't know, but, here's hoping.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  9. #609
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I'm not sure when I told anyone they should change what they are doing.

    I tried to answer the question, "are there treatment free commercial beekeepers", and tried to explain at least some of the things they do.

    In return, others have been happily spreading misinformation...I'm not sure why, but I fail to see how any of this is productive or in any way honest.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  10. #610
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I don't think you told anyone to change anything either.
    Yes, you answered the question and explained some of the things they do. It's not your fault that that is not enuough.
    I don't know what's up w/ the disinformation. Maybe some folks don't see things the way you see things. Maybe some folks read what they do about Dee Lusby, from her Posts elsewhere, and read into them what you don't know from hands on experience. Which is not dishonest, just a different point of view about things.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #611
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Maybe some folks don't see things the way you see things. Maybe some folks read what they do about Dee Lusby, from her Posts elsewhere, and read into them what you don't know from hands on experience. Which is not dishonest, just a different point of view about things.
    I've been through most of her yards 7 times over the last 6 years...sometimes working unsupervised doing splits and such.

    Allen didn't visit "recently" to 2012 (has someone that has seen your hives 7 years ago seen them "recently"?).
    The numbers cited for losses and production are factually incorrect.
    I've written before on beesource about my observations wrt afb in her operation...I'd hardly classify it as a "problem".

    Dee can be difficult at times, and she can be hard to understand....but she is honest as the day is long.

    There are things that we can all have different opinions about, but facts and numbers are quantifiable. Honesty and forthrightness are qualifyable....I've offered nothing but honesty and forthrightness in this thread....it would be more productive if others did the same.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  12. #612
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Yes, I agree. And I believe you.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  13. #613
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Honestly, you want me to give more details when the facts are trumped by speculation. If you don't believe what I say, why do you want to ask questions.

    deknow
    you brought these name into the conversation and asked why these beekeepers were not being talked about,
    then you scream that they are being talked about

    If you have information that would clear the air, then by all means , pass it along,
    if not, quit yelling about the conversation
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #614

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    If you are recommending an unconventional method of doing business to a group of people who have been in that business for years….and when they ask for specific results….but you will only say ‘trust me’…..guess what their response is likely to be?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #615
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I responded to Sol’s question about where it was reported that Dee had had losses. The time reference in the exchange between Dee and Allen indicated current times.
    That would be a good conclusion if it were correct....but for the third time, Allen hasn't been to Dee's since 2005. That is the fact. Your interpretation is flawed...probably from looking at things out of context.

    A quote from Allen last December why are you down to 'several hundred" hives?
    The word ‘are’ indicates a relatively current period…don’t you agree?
    So what part of my post is dishonest? And, I suppose you are saying that Allen was dishonest in his message.
    Hmmm, "several hundred" seems to me to include the 700-800 hives she is running by herself, with no help. She keeps less bees than she did when her husband was alive to work with her. None of this leads to any conclusion over a specific number of hives, nor a specific production/income....both of which have been cited, based on no reliable data....which is dishonest.

    While on the topic of honesty….your assertion that Dee’s bees are not especially defensive strikes a bit of a dishonest tone to anyone who viewed the video of your visit to her apiaries….a video that is now, conveniently, removed from the public domain. I don’t blame you for removing it as it surely undermines your case.
    1. Those videos were shot (and posted unedited) while doing about 200 walk away splits...essentially without smoke.
    2. On separate occasions, several years apart, in separate yards, both Michael Bush and I have inspected hives (with others around) using a normal amount of smoke...the bees were entirely manageable. On another occasion (3 years ago, I think), Dee asked me to grab a jar of bees for a speaker that was doing an apitheripy talk...I smoked the bees, put on a veil (no gloves), pulled brood frames and rolled bees into a jar.
    3. This is the most amusing accusation yet....that I pulled the videos. These videos have never been taken down. When I first wanted to put these online, Youtube had a 5 min. limit to the length of the video. At the time, google had an experimental video service that had no such restriction, so that's where I posted them. Since that time, google bought youtube, and eventually all the google video content was automatically migrated to youtube...where they still live today, with no interruption. Eventually the google video links were discontinued. I'd like to find the time to upload higher rez versions on vimeo (which is what I use for video these days). These videos have been "live" since 2008 with no interruption. When Bee-l was having this "discussion", no one bothered to ask....seems rather familiar a way to arrive at the "truth", eh?
    Is it really more productive to say something has been taken down (when it hasn't) or to ask where it might have gone (which happened automatically which I couldn't stop from happening.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Videos
    On April 15, 2011, Google announced via email that after April 29 they would no longer allow playback of content hosted on their service, but reversed the decision one week later in lieu of greater support for migration to YouTube.[4][5] Google Videos was shut on August 20, 2012. The remaining Google Videos content was moved to YouTube.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GoldenRu...?feature=watch

    I, ordinarily, believe that a difference of opinion between adults is normal. An interpretation of information can be viewed on opposite poles. I don’t believe that when someone takes a different view that it is the result of dishonesty. To do otherwise, in my opinion, is evidence of projection
    Errr, ok, so posters here are making "honest mistakes" because they can't be bothered with the facts? They are "honestly" making things up? I don't think it's dishonest to disagree about something...but in an honest discussion, there is some responsibility for the participants to get their facts straight...and not make up "facts".

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  16. #616
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    If you are recommending an unconventional method of doing business to a group of people who have been in that business for years….
    When did I do that?

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  17. #617
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    like the video of Dee's bees,
    sheets of brood in some of those hives

    got to say though, those bees seemed a bit hot, but sometimes the camera can be mis leading
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #618

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    That is the fact. Your interpretation is flawed...probably from looking at things out of context.
    Maybe…but you do understand tense? Are = present tense Were = past tense
    Allen used the present tense.

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Hmmm, "several hundred" seems to me to include the 700-800 hives she is running by herself, with no help.
    Hmmmmm, no matter how much help she has….several hundred to me means around three hundred.
    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Errr, ok, so posters here are making "honest mistakes" because they can't be bothered with the facts?
    Errr, speaking of 'honest mistakes'.
    From BeeL
    Dee Lusby January 17, 2013
    And as you explained about Dean here......he did good filming, but not as you evidewntly see it, for the bees though flying having to reorientate with fast whole yard divisions were NOT stinging

    Michael Palmer January 18, 2013
    Well that's not true. I know Dean, and have talked with him about his
    filming incident. Dean told me that there were so many stingers in his
    sneakers that you couldn't tell what color they were.


    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  19. #619
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    did you see the bees in the face of Dee working through the third hive? Yikes,

    I dont understand, she keeps bees in a region known to have Africanized hives, she breeds her queen in her region, does one plus one not equal two here? Probably has some Africanized genetics , chances are high, look at how the bees are acting,

    Working my hives, even in the foulest weather, I dont have bees that hot,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  20. #620
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I've been through most of her yards 7 times over the last 6 years...sometimes working unsupervised doing splits and such.
    deknow
    So you often go to her hives and make splits from them for her.... unsupervised! She's a brave soul.

    Seriously though, this thread is about the viability of treatment free commercial beekeeping. Dee has put herself out there as the public face of treatment free small cell beekeeping.

    But because her results are shrouded in secrecy, it is not possible to determine if her operation would be commercially viable.

    I have made my best guess at her production, based on what little information I have been able to glean. I stated at the same time that I could be incorrect and invited you by name, to correct me if I was wrong. So no dishonesty at all, please retract any dishonesty allegations you have levelled at me. You've also been overly quick to accuse others, while being less than forthcoming yourself.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 03-31-2013 at 09:16 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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