Page 22 of 43 FirstFirst ... 12202122232432 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 440 of 846
  1. #421
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Well, predicting the future is where I get off.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  2. #422
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,480

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    So Solomon, I dont understand your philosophy at all. You believe in natural beekeeping, I get that, but you will not manage diseases with treatment,.? Yet you will manipulate the hive and inadvertely manage disease,.?
    Dont think for a second that these named commercial treatment free beekeepers dont manipulate their hive to exaggerate the bees ability to deal with the mite.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #423
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,480

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    how is colony manipulation helping you breed for mite resistance any different than if you would dribble a few mils of Oxalic acid at specific times of the year?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #424
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Anderson County, Texas
    Posts
    1,254

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by funwithbees View Post
    the outside looking in( MY personal opinion)his treatment free management of the russians is due to selling lots of nucs and the continous splitting keeps the mite loads manageable for the russian lines.
    I split but my splits don't go queenless for any length of time. I keep hearing this and wondering how splitting would lower the mite load? Many and maybe most who split to sell those splits have already raised or will be shortly purchasing queens for those splits. I realize virgins are placed in breeding nucs, but after the queens are laying aren't they generally just combined with a split. There would be little if any break in the brood activity. I am making splits now to sell and I want a queen shortly after the split. But that wouldn't/doesn't break the mite cycle does it?
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  5. #425
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,480

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    dilution is the solution,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #426
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,134

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I imagine that the notion that TF beekeepers are really selecting for less virulent mites would not be an acceptable hypothesis among the TF people here?
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  7. #427
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Virgil, NY USA
    Posts
    74

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    most of the splits are done with cells, so there is a good long broodless period.

    Nick

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,704

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I imagine that the notion that TF beekeepers are really selecting for less virulent mites would not be an acceptable hypothesis among the TF people here?
    It's certainly possible. We've had a couple of nucs from another treatment free beekeeper totally crash when placed in our yard....so many mites that it looked like 220 grit sandpaper had been dragged over the capped brood. The hives surrounding them were also treatment free, and were fine.

    But the real objection to your hypothesis is going to come from the folks who are treating...after all, the corollary is that by treating (never mind migrating), conventional beekeepers are selecting for more virulent mites.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  9. #429
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    You believe in natural beekeeping,
    I don't subscribe to anything called "natural beekeeping."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    you will not manage diseases with treatment,.?
    That is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Yet you will manipulate the hive and inadvertely manage disease,.?
    I don't know what manipulation you are referring to that manages disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Dont think for a second that these named commercial treatment free beekeepers dont manipulate their hive to exaggerate the bees ability to deal with the mite.
    I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    how is colony manipulation helping you breed for mite resistance any different than if you would dribble a few mils of Oxalic acid at specific times of the year?
    I don't know what manipulation you're talking about that helps with mite resistance. Resistance is from the bees. Any manipulation would be helping, not increasing resistance. I'm against helping. What does increase mite resistance is allowing bees to die that don't have resistance and artificially increasing the numbers of the survivors through prolific splitting and/or queen rearing to create new hives.

    Oxalic is supposed to kill mites. I wouldn't know, I've never used it. But if it does kill mites, it's helping, and I don't help. Read my resume. It says "Does not help, does not treat, will argue with anything."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    So Solomon, I dont understand your philosophy at all.
    That is correct.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  10. #430
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,134

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    But the real objection to your hypothesis is going to come from the folks who are treating...after all, the corollary is that by treating (never mind migrating), conventional beekeepers are selecting for more virulent mites.

    deknow
    How does a mitecide distinguish between a virulent mite and a less toxic mite? Seems like the selection pressures would be equal....
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  11. #431
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I imagine that the notion that TF beekeepers are really selecting for less virulent mites would not be an acceptable hypothesis among the TF people here?
    I believe in that hypothesis. The way to breed for less virulent mites is to let the virulent ones kill themselves off with the hives they infest. But is that the only mechanism at work? That I do not believe.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  12. #432
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,480

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    manipulation >>> splitting
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #433
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,704

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Actually, I don't think I mentioned this before, but Jim's suggestion from earlier in the thread that perhaps in large operations mites that are usually essentially cloning themselves are outcrossing instead is intriguing...not something I'd heard expressed in quite the same way before.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  14. #434
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Anderson County, Texas
    Posts
    1,254

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by funwithbees View Post
    most of the splits are done with cells, so there is a good long broodless period.
    Tugging on my chain again? You consider 2 weeks a good long broodless period? I doubt that would do much in breaking the mite cycle my friend.
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  15. #435
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    867

    Cool Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Really there is nothing wrong with sharing what you want to share.
    Really in big business you can't share the company secrets.
    I enjoy reading about how others run there operations, and tell people about how I run mine. I've learned years ago there is more then one way to run an operation and still make a good living. The real thing is to find a way that works for your operation and then improve on that each year.

    This is my job, and I have to make it work.

  16. #436
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    manipulation >>> splitting
    I don't split anymore, especially not honey production hives. I graft queens, place cells in mating nucs made up of weaker hives, and grow them into full size hives. The hives set aside for honey production don't get split. They just sit there going full steam.
    Last edited by Solomon Parker; 03-28-2013 at 07:39 PM.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  17. #437
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Anderson County, Texas
    Posts
    1,254

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    manipulation >>> splitting
    Splitting was a management technique that existed long before destructer existed. Give me a break. I also feed syrup, I guess that is manipulation. I also reverse boxes, that's a manipulation.

    Kindest Regards
    Danny
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  18. #438
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,704

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    How does a mitecide distinguish between a virulent mite and a less toxic mite? Seems like the selection pressures would be equal....
    virulent is a difficult word here...are we talking about "virus carrying" or "marked by a rapid and severe and destructive course"?

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  19. #439
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,134

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Actually, I don't think I mentioned this before, but Jim's suggestion from earlier in the thread that perhaps in large operations mites that are usually essentially cloning themselves are outcrossing instead is intriguing...not something I'd heard expressed in quite the same way before.

    deknow
    Please excuse my ignorance... but from what you are saying - I gather mites do not normally engage in sexual reproduction? If so, that would make selecting for less virulent mites even easier..... should make mitecides work better too.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  20. #440
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,134

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    virulent is a difficult word here...are we talking about "virus carrying" or "marked by a rapid and severe and destructive course"?

    deknow
    I am assuming that mites nearly always carry viruses - some of these viruses are virulent... and others perhaps much less so. A virus free mite population would not so quickly destroy a hive... would it?
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

Page 22 of 43 FirstFirst ... 12202122232432 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads