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  1. #341
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,716

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    It must just absolutely awful being able to write off regular travel to Hawaii as a business expense!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #342
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Apparently they bring in loads of honey and swarm constantly.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #343
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,762

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Both Varroa and SHB are recently arrived there, a place with no natural brood breaks.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  4. #344
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,934

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Well, i'm not a commercial, just a sideliner. This winter I've had heavy losses in my nucs, which I have never treated. Sent some bees to Beltsville and they came back with 8.8 varroa/100 bees and 9.2/100 bees. No nosema or tracheal. I suspect they also have a bad virus load but I never saw DWV. Last winter not treating those nucs. Lesson learned. Going to treat the survivors this week.

  5. #345
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I don't mean to be argumentative Cam, but the point is to lose the bees that can't cut it and breed from the survivors. Seems like it would be a waste to scuttle the whole thing now. I humbly submit that splitting is the most correct course of action.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  6. #346
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by cg3 View Post
    Both Varroa and SHB are recently arrived there, a place with no natural brood breaks.
    Brood breaks are one method of natural control so it seems that natural selection for colonies with the propensity to swarm would be the obvious course of their survival in such a situation.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  7. #347
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    2,066

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I wonder to what commercial end these tropical bees are kept.
    Do these treatment free genetics have anything to offer a Mainland keeper?

  8. #348
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,288

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    They're probably just as rare there as here on the mainland. Huge numbers of queens come from Hawaii, commercially so.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  9. #349
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I used to know a commercial beekeeper who used Kona queens back in the day. I have no idea why someone would use queens from an isolated island with no mite problems. Yes, they died when not treated. Completely illogical waste of money that I still don't understand.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  10. #350
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I used to know a commercial beekeeper who used Kona queens back in the day. I have no idea why someone would use queens from an isolated island with no mite problems. Yes, they died when not treated. Completely illogical waste of money that I still don't understand.
    Its easy Soloman, you can get queens a bit cheaper than Aussie queens in JAN.. when they need them for the almonds.... not about genetics, its timing.

  11. #351
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,623

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Its the reason why we buy queens from Cali and Hawaii, its all about timing. We need our queens beginning to mid May, our local stock is ready by June. Everything happens at the same time here.

    Because they are mated on an isolated island does not mean anything in terms of genetic progress. These outfits bring drone semen into the ops. I think if you would talk to some of these commercial queen breeders, youd be impressed. Im told that Olivarez Honey Bees has a hygienic queen avaliable that is very impressive.
    The obvious advantage to mating in an isolated environment is it provides more control on mating
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #352
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,623

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Completely illogical waste of money that I still don't understand.
    Solomon you speak as if your in a bubble,

    I keep hearing snips of commercial treatment free, and the only feed back I can gather from them is breeding,

    If we can find operators who practice treatment free on a commercial scale Im interested in their story but to me it looks like they are an exception and far in between. I think if we are able to dig deeper into these operation we will find mite management at some point of their yearly hive work.
    And this is great, some of it is nothing new, it is the route many of us have already adopted
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #353
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I took some time to think about it yesterday after I posted that and came up with the conclusion that you'd want queens available in the middle of winter that don't know how not to brood constantly. Mites won't be a problem for a while anyway.

    The whole thing is totally antithetical to the way I think and do things. The long term goals are all wrong. The selection pressures aren't there.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #354
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Solomon you speak as if your in a bubble,
    Like I said, not the way I think or do things. Sustainability is always forefront for me. Is this going to work long term? Is this going to work by itself if I get injured or sick? If I have to move for a couple years will I have bees when I get back? In all cases, the answer has proven to be yes.

    Sam Comfort has demonstrated that his system does work when he's not around. It's cheap. It may not be incredibly efficient but for the dollars and the hours invested, it's a very intriguing proposition.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  15. #355
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,623

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I dont want queens that will not brood up constantly. We have so little time to execute on the prairies that we need every week.

    We both hold different philosophys towards beekeeping, which is fine. Your reliance on bees are different than mine, my acceptance of industrialized agriculture is different than yours.

    Bees are not natural here in my area, nor is agriculture, nor is the way we keep the bees. How long will it take to breed a bee that natually adapts to our un natural setting? and then throw mites and diseases into the equation !
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #356
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Are there no feral bees in the area?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  17. #357

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Puts me in mind of that Arizona treatment free beekeeper who continues to propagate those excessively defensive, year-round broody, swarmy, absconding, usurping, nonproductive….mite tolerant bees. Now that’s long term thinking!
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  18. #358
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,626

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I used to know a commercial beekeeper who used Kona queens back in the day. I have no idea why someone would use queens from an isolated island with no mite problems. Yes, they died when not treated. Completely illogical waste of money that I still don't understand.
    First off they have had varroa for several years now and secondly they have been importing drone semen from some good sources for quite some time. These breeders do an excellent job of providing the industry queens at a time when there are few other options. I know many beekeepers who are able to use these for fall and winter splits that pay for themselves many times over in pollination income. Book some queens from Kona and you will get a delivery date you can count on. One more thing about them is their stock comes originally from Weavers. Ring a bell with anyone?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #359
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    First off they have had varroa for several years now
    I said "back in the day" Jim. No need to get defensive.

    Again, thinking differently. I'm coming to see that's the key with commercial and treatment-free.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  20. #360
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,757

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Puts me in mind of that Arizona treatment free beekeeper who continues to propagate those excessively defensive, year-round broody, swarmy, absconding, usurping, nonproductive….mite tolerant bees. Now that’s long term thinking!
    Errr, I've worked with those bees...actually visited them 7 times over the last 6 years, and there are 3-4 colonies in the operation that are particularly "enthusiastic"...and the honey they non-produce generates a large part of my income. Last month I had the chance to do a few inspections while Dee rested in the truck...I used smoke the way I would with any unknown bees, and they were entirely manageable.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion....not every opinion is actually informed or accurate.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

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