Page 19 of 43 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 361 to 380 of 846
  1. #361
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    It's worth noting that my post (number 4 in a thread with over 360 posts):
    Off the top of my head....Dee lusby, Kirk Webster, Bob Brachmann, les crowder....Chris Baldwin is darn close (no varroa treatments). Sam comfort would probably qualify, but I'm not sure he would want to be considered a commercial anything.
    It took quite a while to get to any of these....the fact that no one really seems curious indicates to me that no one really wants to know.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    the fact that no one really seems curious indicates to me that no one really wants to know.
    It seems to me no one wants to admit or allow for. There has been a pretty strong effort to discount each case for one reason or another.

    But that's okay. Like you said, Sam isn't hung up on it. Mike Bush would really like to be working bees full time, but he can't right now. Dee doesn't give a flying rip what this group thinks or she'd be here too. Kirk is his own person doing his own thing. Nobody who does it is all that bothered how they look in this forum's eyes.

    What does this all mean? If you want to do treatment-free, look somewhere else. Commercial beekeepers for the most part aren't interested in treatment-free, especially the ones who use Beesource.
    Last edited by Solomon Parker; 03-28-2013 at 04:38 PM.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #363
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,127

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    >Puts me in mind of that Arizona treatment free beekeeper who continues to propagate those excessively defensive, year-round broody, swarmy, absconding, usurping, nonproductive….mite tolerant bees.

    Hmm... I must not know that person. The only one I know in AZ is Dee and hers produce about 20 barrels of honey a year with very little work on Dee's part per hive. The kind of bees you describe would be a lot of work...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  4. #364
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Are there no feral bees in the area?
    No, just casts off from the year before, but nothing that would linger for anymore than a few years
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #365
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    It's worth noting that my post (number 4 in a thread with over 360 posts):


    It took quite a while to get to any of these....the fact that no one really seems curious indicates to me that no one really wants to know.

    deknow
    then can you speak in behalf of these guys? Can I dig into their management program through you?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #366
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    It seems to me no one wants to admit or allow for. There has been a pretty strong effort to discount each case for one reason or another.
    by not accepting blind faith doesnt count as discounting the case
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #367
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,995

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I dont want queens that will not brood up constantly. We have so little time to execute on the prairies that we need every week.


    Bees are not natural here in my area, nor is agriculture, nor is the way we keep the bees. How long will it take to breed a bee that natually adapts to our un natural setting? and then throw mites and diseases into the equation !
    Ian.... if you can get Kona Queens in Manitoba..... wonder why I can not cross the border with a load to bees to sample that prairie nectar? I assure you - you would be welcome to come on down try some southern swamp honey..... Once upon a time I understood the border ban.... these days I don't see the sense in it.... unless it is just pure protectionist politics... on both sides.

    BTW... isn't grass a naturally occurring thing on those prairie.... (never seen a prairie... but would love to)
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  8. #368
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    by not accepting blind faith doesnt count as discounting the case
    What's the point in even discussing it then? I am supposed to believe you when you tell me there are no bees in your area. What would make me want to do that? Statements like "I think if we are able to dig deeper into these operation we will find mite management at some point of their yearly hive work," show a fundamental mistrust of anything that anyone says that doesn't mesh with your world view.

    I guess what I'm saying is, why should anyone jump through your hoops? You just keep moving the hoop. What's the point? Just accept that there are no treatment-free commercials and move on. No one appears to be able to change your mind.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  9. #369
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    by not accepting blind faith doesnt count as discounting the case
    Of course it doesn't....but if one wants to have a discussion about the possibility of commercial treatment free beekeepers (presumably everyone posting here wants to be part of that conversation), and a number of names are given, that someone would express some curiosity. Here we are at post 336+...how about Bob Brachmann? How about Kirk Webster? These folks aren't invisible.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  10. #370
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    Ian.... if you can get Kona Queens in Manitoba..... wonder why I can not cross the border with a load to bees to sample that prairie nectar? I assure you - you would be welcome to come on down try some southern swamp honey..... Once upon a time I understood the border ban.... these days I don't see the sense in it.... unless it is just pure protectionist politics... on both sides.

    BTW... isn't grass a naturally occurring thing on those prairie.... (never seen a prairie... but would love to)
    that issue is out of my hands, I can only buy queens from Cali
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #371
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    lets talk about these guys then, if they are there, actually managing commercial treatment free operations,

    Two points I have gotten from this discussion,

    #1 dont know what disease levels are in treatment free operations discussed here, because it doesnt matter

    #2 use breeding to be able to manage treatment free operations

    I cant hang my hat on those two points. I also know of a survival project here that does not make any of the claims made by keepers here, and they full disclose their operations.

    like I said before, because I do not accept blind faith, does not mean Im discrediting whats said. Answer some questions
    listing beekeepers names who commercially keep treatment free is awesome, as it shows beekeepers doing it, but if thats all you give me here in this forum, that is all I can take that information at, names
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #372
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    then can you speak in behalf of these guys? Can I dig into their management program through you?
    I've posted quite a bit about what I know about most of these people...but if someone wanted to know about your indoor overwintering setup, and they really wanted to know, they wouldn't ask me, they would call you up.
    When I give formal presentations of treatment free beekeeping, I do discuss and contrast what Dee does, what Kirk does, what Bob does.
    Kirk is pretty well known, and has a bunch of articles on his own website that explains his approach and practice better than I could: http://KirkWebster.com
    Bob is part of the Russian breeding program and is easy to find through their directory
    The mention of Chris Baldwin's name was completely ignored until he came here to post on the forum from his phone.

    When I wanted to see for myself (and not take anything on blind faith), I went to visit Dee, Kirk, Bob, etc.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  13. #373
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    ...but if thats all you give me here in this forum, that is all I can take that information at, names
    Exactly....now, what other aspects of beekeeping do you really want to know about that you would simply forget about if not fully explained to you in all details on beesource?

    What do you want to know? What answers will you accept? What will you claim is "blind faith"?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  14. #374
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    absolutely, seeing things first hand is what we need to do, and much the reason we hold yearly conventions and such.

    for the sake of this forum discussion, lets assume I cant go down to where ever these guys work, nor would I want to bother them.
    so lets take what we know from their example and talk about it. You brought their names up, and you say you talk on this subject, so deknow ( the only name I can put to you ) lets dig deeper,..
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #375
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,127

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    >then can you speak in behalf of these guys?

    Dee's work is on here and on her web site, and has been observed by several of us.
    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/ed-dee-lusby/

    Kirk has published his methods in the bee journals and those articles have been put online.
    www.kirkwebster.com

    I think their writing speaks for itself.

    >#1 dont know what disease levels are in treatment free operations discussed here, because it doesnt matter

    Well, you CAN know what mine are. They are measured by the bee inspector every year:
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beescerts.htm

    > Mites invariably build up as the season progresses.

    Actually, that has not been my experience. They build up some early in the spring and drop off all summer into the fall in small cell hives... very little of the worker brood ever gets infested.

    >I think if we are able to dig deeper into these operation we will find mite management at some point of their yearly hive work

    Not in my operation nor, in my experience, others who have been listed whose operations I've seen, such as Dee, or Kirk. Of course some will say making splits is Varroa control. No doubt anything you do has an affect, but to not split to prevent swarms would be mismangament, in my view, and I don't think I make any more or less than other people. While it may be true that my home yard is being manipulated for queen rearing, and that probably has more of an effect, the rest of my yards are just managed as usual.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #376
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    this is a commercial forum so we have to assume many of us ride on the coat tail of our banker

    tell me how I can take my 1000 hives, manage them from April to October, through a month long splitting, through a three month honey flow, and prepare them for winter without considering disease as the foundation to my management strategy. Nosema, varroa mite, AFB, viral loads, pesticide,
    What breeding efforts am I going to have to tap into that will give me the ability to put these thoughts out of mind,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  17. #377
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I have listened to some of your speaking engagements on YouTube Michael, very much enjoyed your talk
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #378
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,931

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I have adopted a nuc strategy in my operation. I will manage a large number of nucs for the following season, and using hygenic queens, and even so, I have to slap those mites down at least one time of the year with Oxalic or chem to allow for satisfactory wintering. Thats not considering nosema either
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #379
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,631

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    Ian, I'm reluctant to enter into this if you aren't willing to read what Kirk and Dee have written (Dee's writing can be difficult, I'm happy to help you with anything you are having difficulties understanding...but they are here on beesource under POV).

    We've now gone from the "there are none" mantra of 300+ posts, to "tell me how to manage my bees and my debt load with the bank". Honestly, i'm not trying to be evasive, I just don't think you are going to believe anything I tell you. I would have thought Chris's contributions would have answered some questions.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  20. #380
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,824

    Default Re: Treatment Free Commercial Beekeepers?

    I think Kirk is a better example than Dee. I would never have those Africanized bees that Dean posted videos of. Also she is very evasive about her yields and whether the hives are profitable. There is no doubt in my mind that Kirk has a sustainable apiary that is no treat. And I classify him as a commercial. And he has written extensively on his methods and ideas. http://kirkwebster.com/
    Last edited by camero7; 03-28-2013 at 11:50 AM. Reason: added link

Page 19 of 43 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads