Should I requeen and how?

**srf_onezero** · 03-05-2013, 11:50 AM

My first colony was a 3 lb Italian package I installed in 2011.
Do I need to consider requeening that colony or can they do that themselves?

If I should re-queen, when should I do it?

The colony had a really good production of honey for the area that I live in. I think we harvested about 153 lb.
I am hoping they will have another year similar to that.

Thanks,
Shawn

**apis maximus** · 03-05-2013, 12:10 PM

Are you concerned that the queen is too old? Why would you want to re queen? Have you looked in the hive and noticed that the queen is slowing down or doing something to point to her decline?
Sounds like she lead a pretty strong colony.

I am sure others would suggest different options...but here is what I would do.
First I'd check the hive...weather permitting of course. Not sure how the season is where you are at, but you can ask some local beeks to see what they suggest weather/flow wise...

If I see drone pupae in advanced stages, and I foresee a good flow coming, I would make me a nuc. Take the old queen you want to replace, with 2-3 frames of brood, shake couple more frames of bees in it, and add 2-3 frames of reserves( honey+pollen) to the nuc. You can move the nuc to a different location, or leave in the same bee yard.
If she is indeed from a good genetic source, which you might want to propagate, it will be much easier to see how she does in the nuc.
Make sure there are eggs and larvae in the original hive that you have just made queen less, so that the bees can make their own, new queen. So yes, they can do it themselves if they have the resources.

Either way you go, I am sure you have an opportunity to learn by doing...Good luck!

**Michael Bush** · 03-05-2013, 12:44 PM

If I requeen every year in a round about way, I'm selecting for bees that can't sense a failing queen and replace her. If I only requeen the hives that aren't wise enough to requeen themselves, I'm selecting for good supersedure skills. In nature there is a very strong selection for bees with good supersedure skills.

**srf_onezero** · 03-06-2013, 01:03 PM

Thanks for advice.
I would prefer to be hands off and let them do what they need since they know better than I.

**rweakley** · 03-06-2013, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by apis maximus

Are you concerned that the queen is too old? Why would you want to re queen? Have you looked in the hive and noticed that the queen is slowing down or doing something to point to her decline?
Sounds like she lead a pretty strong colony.

I am sure others would suggest different options...but here is what I would do.
First I'd check the hive...weather permitting of course. Not sure how the season is where you are at, but you can ask some local beeks to see what they suggest weather/flow wise...

If I see drone pupae in advanced stages, and I foresee a good flow coming, I would make me a nuc. Take the old queen you want to replace, with 2-3 frames of brood, shake couple more frames of bees in it, and add 2-3 frames of reserves( honey+pollen) to the nuc. You can move the nuc to a different location, or leave in the same bee yard.
If she is indeed from a good genetic source, which you might want to propagate, it will be much easier to see how she does in the nuc.
Make sure there are eggs and larvae in the original hive that you have just made queen less, so that the bees can make their own, new queen. So yes, they can do it themselves if they have the resources.

Either way you go, I am sure you have an opportunity to learn by doing...Good luck!

Come on Barry can we get a thank you button?(I'm on another board that uses I think the same software and they have thank you button)

This was the exact advice I was going to give.

**rweakley** · 03-06-2013, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by srf_onezero

Thanks for advice.
I would prefer to be hands off and let them do what they need since they know better than I.

How can you be hands off if you were just asking about requeending? The advice that apis maximus gave isn't that much more manipulations than what you would have to do to properly requeen that hive anyway. If you are going to requeen you are going to have to find the old queen anyway, how hard is it to take that frame plus 4 others as described above and put them in a nuc box? If you are worried about getting more equipment (the nuc box) just make some of the Dcoates nuc boxes out of plywood. http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yo...oates-version/ I've made bunches, if I can do it anyone can.

**squarepeg** · 03-06-2013, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Bush

If I requeen every year in a round about way, I'm selecting for bees that can't sense a failing queen and replace her. If I only requeen the hives that aren't wise enough to requeen themselves, I'm selecting for good supersedure skills. In nature there is a very strong selection for bees with good supersedure skills.

that makes really good sense michael. can you describe more specifically what you are looking for in terms of good supercedure skills?

**Michael Bush** · 03-07-2013, 07:57 AM

I think I first heard Michael Palmer use the term "seamless supersedure". That's when they sense a failing queen before I would, raise a daughter from her, both lay for a while and then the mother is disposed of eventually. No gap in brood rearing. So it's a combination of the ability to sense a failing queen, and having a two queen hive for a while.