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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    1,822

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    I think the name "Wonka" is protected better change the name.

    Ace,
    I really was being serious and now I'm afraid people are making fun of you.
    Build one! A bigger, better, faster one with cheaper parts, get a patent on it and smash the original in a video you post here! Don't let anyone use you ideas.
    That will show them.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    8,419

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by challenger View Post
    Pardon me here but, just IMOHO, that is complete overkill. The rack, again IMOHO, is overkil as well.
    If one has some of the plastic type hive covers these work great for catching the excess syrup. If not then hive covers sealed with wax OR just a trash bag. Then you can stack out a good pile on top of each other. From my perspective I find it most convenient to use what I already have. As shown in a photo or two, I can fill one of those black totes and put a deep hive body on top of it as I fill it and do so again until it is 2-3 high. An alternative would be to take a single deep and seal the bottom so it will hold 10 filled frames and then be the bottom deep with additional deeps stacked to the ceiling if need be. Having to make, acquire or otherwise add additional equipment for filled frames takes away the simplicity and ease of use that makes this system so attractive to me.
    Challenger I am sorry I ticked you off. I was thinking along the lines of 500 frames or better not diddling with 20 frames or so. Most of what I commented on are to help other people not yourself. You are happy with what you have and I don't have any problem with that. If you are happy what is upsetting you?
    Resident Archiver point people to the thread and let them read the whole thread for themselves. Unless you are after a new title of "Archiving Thread Side tracker".
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    8,419

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by Mbeck View Post
    Ace,
    I really was being serious and now I'm afraid people are making fun of you.
    Build one! A bigger, better, faster one with cheaper parts, get a patent on it and smash the original in a video you post here! Don't let anyone use you ideas.
    That will show them.
    Is that what beesource is about? Thumping your chest and proving to disbelievers. I am too old for that childish behavior. My ideas could stimulate better ideas. That is all I hope for.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Most of what I commented on are to help other people not yourself.
    Remarkable hubris!

    Ace, you earlier complained when I used the "Quote" feature to bring up older threads, so this time (in post #80) I provided a direct link to the older thread instead. Apparently you don't like that either. Is there something about your "advice" that fails the test of time?



    Oh, and you also complained about me using "animated" icons.

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #85
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hampstead, NC USA
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    342

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Challenger I am sorry I ticked you off. I was thinking along the lines of 500 frames or better not diddling with 20 frames or so. Most of what I commented on are to help other people not yourself. You are happy with what you have and I don't have any problem with that. If you are happy what is upsetting you?
    Resident Archiver point people to the thread and let them read the whole thread for themselves. Unless you are after a new title of "Archiving Thread Side tracker".
    Oh-I am not ticked off by any stretch and I am content in my diddling. Actually I think I exist to diddle, fiddle, tinker and twiddle but mostly I DO. I don't succeed nearly as often as I DO but I still DO. I DO over and over and over again. And then I DO some more.

    I wish I had the brain power to have been able to get a degree in M.E. I admire those, such as yourself, that are able to learn, remember and are intelligent enough to get through the required schooling. I've got some learning disabilities that now have names. When I was in school they called people like me, "daydreamers" & "lazy". I can't be lazy-it's just not in my DNA but I can daydream in the middle of an intense conversation and that isn't a personal trait I am proud to own but it is a fact. I get by though and I suppose I do so by DOING. I'm stupid & stubborn. One offsets the other to by some measure but I still wish I could have learned what engineers have been able to learn.

    Those that can, do. Those that cannot, comment.

    Using your vernacular:
    I'd like to see, at minimum, mock ups of some, or maybe most, of your ideas. Even if it was AutoCad or something similar.

    I am, in a lot of ways, a wannabee. Don't be like me.
    Howard (not ticked off but I did take a tick off for the first time two days ago. I hate ticks)

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    > I wish I had the brain power to have been able to get a degree in M.E. I admire those, such as yourself, that are able to learn, remember and are intelligent enough to get through the required schooling.

    If this is a reference to the Beesource member mentioned in my earlier post, he does not show a degree in Mechanical Engineering on his resume, as posted on LinkedIn. It does show an Associate degree in Civil Technology.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    wilmington, nc
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    If you didn't diddle, fiddle, tinker and twiddle , how on earth would anything get accomplished !! Thanks Howard !!

  8. #88
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
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    2,674

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Well for info I do have my ME, several patents.. and lots of freaky wierd ideas and yet hats off to challenger for pointing out what I had over looked. back to reinventing the wheel. someone in france years back did it simpler......

    As for wipers and dripping, no wipers needed. I noticed Pure HFCS which is what I am feeding takes time to drip. It also seems to pool in the bottom of the frame. a drip trough would be nice. Come fall I will use the one from my uncapper.

    I will build one this summer, steel is already in the corner. but I don't see much market for them. those of us who fill frames are a small minority.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    There probably isn't a system that exist. Is that because it hasn't been tried? Sit is a whirl pool bath and feel the jets hitting your body parts. Keep in mind that the cells are constructed in an upward 13 degree angle so the tendency for the air is to go up and out of the cells if a forceful flow is imparted on the comb. Do I know it will work? Of course not. Is it worth a try? Someone else will have to decide.

    Actually it does exist. in multiple forms. jut not for bee feeding syrup. It works extremely well and will replace the air in a cell of wood. One variation of the system is used in forensic sciences in order to bring evidence samples to a condition they can be manipulated. As an example how would you bring Ash from a crime scene to a condition that it can be handled examined and investigated? Basically the idea is you replace every bit of air in that ash with plastic or other resins.

    The process is not really that complicated to build but would be time consuming to use with frames. unless you built a chamber that woudl hold many frames at one. IN many cases the process includes Pressure. vacuum and heat. But some of these are requirements of the resins in use and not critical to the displacement of air. The pressure then vacuum cycle is far more relevant to that issue.

    One such system you may be familiar with is how they can recover finger prints on objects with the use of a vacuum chamber and vaporized super glue. Super glue is manly a fast curing plastic. The vacuum causes the glue to replace the air in the oils and dirt of the print.

    In all I am not sure the benefit would justify the cost or effort.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,419

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by challenger View Post
    I wish I had the brain power to have been able to get a degree in M.E.
    Challenger, as the archiver pointed out I do not have a degree in M.E. Just like beekeeping or anything else, you can learn from books, lectures or tinkering and observation. I was fortunate enough to learn early on by some of the brightest people in the country. I was 20 and they were 60 to 70. As fast as they could spill their guts I was absorbing practical information. It gave me a quick boost that I am eternally grateful for.

    Using your vernacular:
    I'd like to see, at minimum, mock ups of some, or maybe most, of your ideas. Even if it was AutoCad or something similar.
    PM me, I am not sure why you are asking. Through much of my carrier I was under non disclosure agreements.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #91
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hampstead, NC USA
    Posts
    342

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Actually it does exist. in multiple forms. jut not for bee feeding syrup. It works extremely well and will replace the air in a cell of wood. One variation of the system is used in forensic sciences in order to bring evidence samples to a condition they can be manipulated. As an example how would you bring Ash from a crime scene to a condition that it can be handled examined and investigated? Basically the idea is you replace every bit of air in that ash with plastic or other resins.

    The process is not really that complicated to build but would be time consuming to use with frames. unless you built a chamber that woudl hold many frames at one. IN many cases the process includes Pressure. vacuum and heat. But some of these are requirements of the resins in use and not critical to the displacement of air. The pressure then vacuum cycle is far more relevant to that issue.

    One such system you may be familiar with is how they can recover finger prints on objects with the use of a vacuum chamber and vaporized super glue. Super glue is manly a fast curing plastic. The vacuum causes the glue to replace the air in the oils and dirt of the print.

    In all I am not sure the benefit would justify the cost or effort.
    Seems there may be a mix up. The quoted text is referring to the idea Acebird had about filling comb while submerged in syrup. I think your post is talking about filling comb under vacuum. I had this, perhaps absurd, idea and another poster on this thread mentioned using a vacuum chamber as a way to fill the stubborn cells????

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Challenger, as the archiver pointed out I do not have a degree in M.E. Just like beekeeping or anything else, you can learn from books, lectures or tinkering and observation. I was fortunate enough to learn early on by some of the brightest people in the country. I was 20 and they were 60 to 70. As fast as they could spill their guts I was absorbing practical information. It gave me a quick boost that I am eternally grateful for.


    PM me, I am not sure why you are asking. Through much of my carrier I was under non disclosure agreements.
    Sorry-I thought I saw in your profile you were a mechanical engineer.
    Most engineers I know have a lot of experience with Autocad or similar programs and thought, if you did, that some of your ideas would be easy to "produce" using a cad program. You had some thoughts & input on several fronts here and I legitimately thought showing some of these "on paper" would be very interesting. Not trying to be a wise guy honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcharlie View Post
    Well for info I do have my ME, several patents.. and lots of freaky wierd ideas and yet hats off to challenger for pointing out what I had over looked. back to reinventing the wheel. someone in france years back did it simpler......
    Um....I hope I didn't come across as challenging your credentials. I was referring to Acebird & trying to see if he had the ability or desire to generate some engineering drawings for some of the suggestions he had.
    What is it I pointed out that you had overlooked?
    Thanks-Howard

    As for wipers and dripping, no wipers needed. I noticed Pure HFCS which is what I am feeding takes time to drip. It also seems to pool in the bottom of the frame. a drip trough would be nice. Come fall I will use the one from my uncapper.

    I will build one this summer, steel is already in the corner. but I don't see much market for them. those of us who fill frames are a small minority.
    I'd like to see what you have in mind for the trough etc.
    What are you calling pure HFCS? I am aware of a couple of mixes available but I've not heard of pure HFCS. It may be something I can try to find locally IF I can ask around for it knowing what I am talking about. There is a source within an hour or so but they sell 49% which would be a hassle for me to store in warm weather. My sugar syrup connection will dry up when my son graduates UNC Charlotte this fall so I'll be looking for something else. Charlotte is a 4 hour drive each way so it doesn't make economical sense without having someone do double duty by shuttling syrup when visiting my area.
    Thanks
    Howard

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    8,419

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Quote Originally Posted by challenger View Post
    Sorry-I thought I saw in your profile you were a mechanical engineer.
    I am a mechanical engineer and have had extensive use of Autocad in the 2D environment. But how would I post a drawing to beesource? Secondly, most people don't know how to read drawings. It is different if you are 3D modeling.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    I just tried to get a drawing I made this weekend loaded to this message. won't happen. I can't even save it as a jpg and put it in this message. Not sure how to link to it. It is in google sketch up.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    > I can't even save it as a jpg

    From SketchUp, its under the File menu:
    File > Export > 2D Graphic > Jpeg

    Or you can choose PNG as an alternate file type.

    ---------------
    And as far as converting Autocad files to display here, there are plenty of sites offering conversions to JPG. Some of them even offer free trials. Of course, that only works if you actually have an Autocad file to convert.


    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #95
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,674

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    I was refering to "straight" HFCS not cut with water... I am feeding 55 in spring. Cut for the feeders but not cut in the frames

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Southeast Virginia
    Posts
    69

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Have you applied for your patent yet.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    ? Would a honey pump work. Seeing one is coming my way.
    David.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,674

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Looks to me from my experiments any simple pump works fine. It actually doesn't take much pressure to push the fluid into the cells, but it takes volume to feed all the "nozzles"

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,419

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Hello, pump class 101...
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bunker Hill, IL
    Posts
    452

    Default Re: Frame filling "machine" update

    Ive been looking for the numbers but didnt see any.

    What is the weight of the frame after a run through the sprayer? ie, how much syrup can you get into the cells/frames?

    Is this process repeated numerous times, or is this a single event that is done, placeing an entire super of these wetted frames on a hive and never going back? eg does it provide enough feed for 1-2 months in the spring? or is it just like several weeks and you need to do it again if times are tough for the bees?

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