2 queen hives

**ryandebny** · 03-01-2013, 04:41 AM

I'm planning on starting a 2 queen hive this year with packages. I've read up on all the set up, but nothing tells you how long you need to build up the hives before you go back to one hive.
I'll be statrting with mostly new undrawn foundation, with a few drawn frames.
So my question is, at what point do I remove the divider and let the queens duke it out.
I'm located in NYC.

**jmgi** · 03-01-2013, 04:59 AM

I have never done a two queen hive, but I would save the best queen by removing the other one myself rather than letting them fight, you never know which one will survive, and you may end up with two dead queens. John

**BMAC** · 03-01-2013, 05:19 AM

Two queen colonies is almost just a thing of the past when Varroa destructor come to the US. Many advocates of natural beekeeping suggest maybe keeping smaller colonies and more of them in the fight of Varroa mites. Just understand double the brood = double the mite infestation and associated issues.

**jmgi** · 03-01-2013, 05:56 AM

BMAC, that's what I have found to be the case also, the stronger the hive the more mite problem. John

**Acebird** · 03-01-2013, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by ryandebny

So my question is, at what point do I remove the divider and let the queens duke it out.
I'm located in NYC.

Never. Take some of the honey and split the hive. One may not make it through the winter so you will have a better chance next spring.

**BeeCurious** · 03-01-2013, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by ryandebny

I'm planning on starting a 2 queen hive this year with packages. I've read up on all the set up, but nothing tells you how long you need to build up the hives before you go back to one hive.
I'll be statrting with mostly new undrawn foundation, with a few drawn frames.
So my question is, at what point do I remove the divider and let the queens duke it out.
I'm located in NYC.

You don't seem to be interested in having a "two queen hive". Your plan sounds more like a very expensive way to have one hive.

I might play with a couple of Tower Hives this year...

And I'll use queen excluders to prevent any queens from "duking it out".

**BMAC** · 03-01-2013, 08:01 AM

I like your pictrue. I have not read or seen it done in this fashion before. You will have to let us know how it works. Atleast with this fashion it seems like you can better treat both colonies and inspect them without much hassle.

**BeeCurious** · 03-01-2013, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by BMAC

I like your pictrue. I have not read or seen it done in this fashion before. You will have to let us know how it works. Atleast with this fashion it seems like you can better treat both colonies and inspect them without much hassle.

The photo is from this site : http://www.mdbeekeepers.org/towerhive.html

**BMAC** · 03-01-2013, 08:14 AM

If you do it this year will it be the first attempt?

**Scott Klein** · 03-01-2013, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by BeeCurious

The photo is from this site : http://www.mdbeekeepers.org/towerhive.html

I've been thinking for some time about the pros and cons of 2Q. I think I would do this and follow the UMD guidelines even though I'm in MO. Variables are that I don't know the specific breed of my queens and they would likely vary significantly from colony to colony. I also plan to step up my checkerboarding of foundationless frames. I may need to keep other colonies within a hundred ft. of these colonies from time to time.

Upside: I'm revamping my site and stands now so it's a good time to prep.

Looking at the guidelines: The phrase "Ensure that each is disease free, has a laying queen, and is approximately the same in size."

How can we be sure of a hive being disease free? Dose that imply a Beltsville test of each colony or prophylactic treatment (which I didn't do)?

Not a fan of the plastic drone frames, I may substitute the foundationless here or simply a shallow or medium frame for bees to draw drone.

I didn't even know this was a IPM technique, I thought it was a production technique.

**JD's Bees** · 03-01-2013, 08:54 AM

The advantage of having a second queen is lost about 1 month before the end of the honey flow becuase any eggs laid will not become foragers before the flow is past.
Most people wait until the flow is done to either pull the divider and unite the two queens or separate and winter two single queen hives.

**Joel** · 03-01-2013, 01:01 PM

We've been running 2 queen units since 1995. We currently run 250 annually and have good success with it. They are very labor intensive for about a month. I enjoy the challenge and the success of doing them, my son much less so. In a good year you will double your crop (see the studies) and in a bad year you'll be feeding the monster. The queen in the top will be there for 21 days + the time to release her so we figure 23 days. The workers in both the top and bottom will have accepted both queens is you are using a standard 2 queen board ( has a cut out with a queen excluder about 4 inches by 5 inches in the center). You will need to introduce a caged, laying queen, after the top split is queenless for 24 hours to increase acceptance and because virgins will get through the excluder. After 23 days just move the top hive body to the top of the lower unit, no newspaper needed. Many times those queens will go on laying together for a week or 2 and eventually one of them will be de-throned by the other.

There's a really detailed layout in "The Hive and the Honey Bee" so you may want to check that and adjust it as you learn the management. Timing is everything as to when you start your 2 queen unit if you are going to be successful, you have to know your late summer bloom dates and work back from there. In a good year you will need a step ladder to harvest ( between 5 & 7 - 3/4"s on 2 deeps) and be certain the hive/hives are absolutely level. A guy named Paul Brown (I think he is a past Beekeeper of the year for both north and South Carolina) used to make "instant" 2 queen units by newspapering swarms into existing hives and had confirmed harvests of 480lbs a hive. He's got a video out there somewhere.

Have fun and make a ton of honey!