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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Indian River, Florida
    Posts
    232

    Default Another bee kill from spraying?

    On October 30 I inspected one of my bee yards and it was showing signs of acute kill off possibly from another pesticide related application. The same grove that was sprayed last December in the middle of the day was being sprayed this day and also the next day which was last Friday October 31, 2014. On Friday I inspected the same yard again and hives were completely dead and piles of bees were on the ground at each hive entrance. Some hives had their entire population dead of doing the circle death dance on the ground. It looks to me as a typical insecticide acute poisoning that I had experienced before from the same grove company that sprays their citrus trees located about 1/4 to 1/3 mile south and west from my bee yard.
    I contacted the Florida Apiary Department, The Florida Department Of Agriculture, and the EPA and the Pollinators Association to report the kill.
    Yesterday I was contacted by a newspaper company and another media outlet who is interested in doing a article on this and past incidents concerning acute or now possible chronic bee poisonings.
    As of yesterday afternoon bees were still dying from residual poisoning, I probably will lose most of the hives in that yard and another yard is also showing lesser effects of contamination, buy the population of field bees in most all colonies have been affected. I will await the results from the Florida Department Of Agriculture who took excellent samples for analysis and they will also be doing the same from the grove company that was spraying the grove. I hope this never happens to any of you . Broodhead

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
    Posts
    605

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Please please please take your own samples and send them to a reputable lab. Don't rely on someone else for this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Washington County, Pa
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Good luck finding out if it is indeed the true cause.
    Sorry to hear

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ft. Pierce, FL
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Broodhead, I am in Ft. Pierce and had the same thing happen last year. Lost 60 hives due to Mustang being sprayed. I hope you get better analysis reporting than I did. Not only did it take over 6 months for the state to send me results of the test but when I finally got it the state said they could not find any evidence of insecticide residues. Really strange findings by the state as there were literally piles of dead bees mounded up in front of the hives. That was a financial disaster for me. I can't imagine losing hundreds if not thousands of hives like some of the big guys do. I know several chemical salesmen down here that say that there are chemicals that can be sprayed that do not harm honeybees. It's all about how much money the grove people are willing to spend per acre and apparently honeybees are not in that equation. It sure ain't like it used to be when the grove owners would start calling you up in October to see if you were going to have bees available for their groves. Good luck to you with the state. Dan

  5. #5

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by swamper1 View Post
    It sure ain't like it used to be when the grove owners would start calling you up in October to see if you were going to have bees available for their groves.
    Why did they want your bees in their groves?
    My sympathy to all concerned. Beekeepers losing bees. The disappearance of Florida citrus. It is a lose - lose situation....seems to me.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ft. Pierce, FL
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Beemandan, years ago before greening and citrus canker, grove owners and beekeepers mutually benefitted from bees in groves during bloom time (usually February, March, and some of April). Orange blossom honey used to be a premium, water white honey produced here. Nowadays we get a mix of orange, Spanish needle, and whatever else is blooming in the groves at that time. I'm convinced the bees are reluctant to work the orange blossoms because of all the chemicals on the trees, not only pesticides, but stuff to keep the trees somewhat healthy if there is such a thing. And you are right. It's really a lose, lose situation anymore. Dan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    2,065

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    It's no secret that there is a huge effort to solve the Citrus greening problem and save Florida's citrus industry.

    The rumor on the street is that there will be a solution available to growers within a short time (two years or so depending who you talk to).

    http://www.floridatoday.com/story/ne...ning/10017477/

    That's great news right? That's what I thought and was my reply when I heard.

    Whoa! Not so fast. The following info was offered:

    Growers spray with an economic threshold in mind. Younger groves with lighter infestations get regular constant and costly treatments. Older groves where greening is higher and near the end of productive life will not get sprayed as frequently. In older groves where greening is established it's not worth the $ to constantly spray even though some trees may not be infected. As the grove nears it's usefully life spending money on spraying a grove that is going to get turned over and replanted isn't the top priority.

    If it is true (or the growers believe it is) that any tree kept health and uninflected for the next two years can be protected from greening with the new product things change . Now there is a greater financial motivation to save each and every tree. It makes sense to spend more on care. Bottom Line, Spray everything hard and often then spray it again.


    I have no idea if this thinking or scenario is in anyway the reality or just crazy talk.
    i share it hoping someone that understands this can correct or explain the reality so I can make the right decision to go or stay.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,751

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    It is important to have the ag department take the samples. Chain of custody is important if the results are to have any legal standing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haraga View Post
    Please please please take your own samples and send them to a reputable lab. Don't rely on someone else for this.
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
    Posts
    605

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    I agree Deknow and it is equally important to collect and document the evidence also. And if you want to keep it from happening again, simply move the hives out of the danger zone.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,615

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    what kind of bee populations do growers need to adequately pollinate the orange trees?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #11

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    what kind of bee populations do growers need to adequately pollinate the orange trees?
    Orange trees are self pollinating. They do not need bees to set fruit.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
    Posts
    7,107

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    That was stated by the growers at the Citrus-Beekeeper meetings. However a botanist pointed out that the only real study was his own showing that fruit set improved with pollinators. Usually people make conclusions based on common sense. So why does the tree expend resources to create nectar to draw pollinators if it does not need pollinators? Honey bees, and bees are not the only pollinators, yet the chemical mixes in groves are killing all pollinators and the fruit yield is down the last few years. True HLB reduces fruit set. Do you believe the growers will ever allow, or not compromise a study of fruit yield to pollinator density?
    There is a parasitic wasp of the Psyllid that has been tested since 2004 and used over a year effectively. You cannot kill insects and have the wasp too though.
    Tamarixia http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/...ia_radiata.htm
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,615

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Orange trees are self pollinating. They do not need bees to set fruit.
    Quote Originally Posted by swamper1 View Post
    It sure ain't like it used to be when the grove owners would start calling you up in October to see if you were going to have bees available for their groves. Good luck to you with the state. Dan
    So growers are or are not asking for bees to pollinate their oranges?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #14

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    So growers are or are not asking for bees to pollinate their oranges?
    They are not.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #15

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericasBeekeeper View Post
    However a botanist pointed out that the only real study was his own
    Text highlighted by me.
    This strikes me as a bit of an inflated academic ego.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Skiff, Alberta, CA
    Posts
    605

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Since the field was sprayed in December of 2013 and December of 2014, you will be able to anticipate moving your bees in December of 2015. Am I correct?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,615

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    They are not.
    what is swamper1 talking about?
    does bees = seeds? , where as no bees = no seeds?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ft. Pierce, FL
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Ian, due to the marketing situation with citrus, several varieties have been eliminated from the groves. Temple oranges used to be a good juice and fresh fruit variety but because of too many seeds in them, growers stopped planting them. Some of the tangerines also were eliminated. Although Temples were considered a pollinator for other varieties themselves they were still not re-planted. That was just one variety. There were several others that needed honeybee pollination. Today, Honeybells need bee pollination, as well as Sunburst tangerines and a couple others benefit from the bees. But the bottom line for growers is what sells the best on the market as in everything else. Dan

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Rush, NY, USA
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    what is swamper1 talking about?
    does bees = seeds? , where as no bees = no seeds?

    simply put bees working the blossoms resulted in more and better fruit for the growers, and honey in the tanks for the beeks, which was a win-win. the grower got free pollination (aka better crops) because the beeks made a lot of good honey (aka money) and were willing to move into the groves to make it.

    that said, orange trees will produce fruit without honeybee pollination.

    now you have a situation where the growers would rather have some saleable fruit (achieved thru heavy spraying) instead of no fruit at all.

    so in order to have saleable fruit, they spray their trees almost constantly, which appears to be killing bees.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Posts
    642

    Default Re: Another bee kill from spraying?

    When I moved to Central Florid 15 yrs ago from Tampa...I was SURROUNDED by orange groves. The scent in spring was like natures potpouuri!! love that smell!!! Now......due to the citrus tree blight they've torn out just about ALL the citrus groves and replanted with strawberry fields that take an ENORMOUS amnt of water to keep alive. One reason why we're hearing about more an more sinkholes..IMHO. strawberries in wntr/sprng and melons in summer. Great fodder for the SHB!!!!
    3 hives/2 nucs

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