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Thread: Neonic facts

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Strom, still waiting for that definition of "classic CCD" or do you just ignore questions you can't answer?

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    Strom, still waiting for that definition of "classic CCD" or do you just ignore questions you can't answer?
    I think she is afraid to talk or else barry may do what they did in england



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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Might want to consider this study, naw, makes too much sense, and it's authored by Oliver and Adee and what do they know?:

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-ne...-clothianidin/

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    Strom, still waiting for that definition of "classic CCD" or do you just ignore questions you can't answer?
    Which one would you like covered?
    CCD Charge-Coupled Device (type of image sensor)
    CCD Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (Catholic religious education)
    CCD Camouflage, Concealment, & Deception
    CCD Census County Division
    CCD Common Core of Data (US Department of Education)
    CCD Colony Collapse Disorder (bee colony)
    CCD Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities
    CCD Continuity of Care Document (clinical information)
    CCD Convention to Combat Desertification
    CCD Council of Canadians with Disabilities (Conseil des Canadiens avec Déficiences)
    CCD Concatenated Disk (driver)
    CCD Cortical Collecting Duct
    CCD Central Core Disease
    CCD Centro Cristiano Democratico (Italian: Christian Democratic Center)
    CCD Centro Cristiano Democratico (Christian Democratic Center; Italian political party)
    CCD Cafe Coffee Day (India)
    CCD Center for Culinary Development
    CCD Carbonate Compensation Depth (geology)
    CCD City and County of Denver (Colorado)
    CCD Cold Cathode Discharge
    CCD Cleidocranial Dysplasia
    CCD Construction Career Days
    CCD Cash Concentration and Disbursement
    CCD Consumer Credit Directive (UK)
    CCD Closed Caption Decoder
    CCD Counter Current Decantation (mineral processing)
    CCD Continuous Collision Detection (computational collision detection)
    CCD Charge-Coupled Detector
    CCD Conference of the Committee on Disarmament
    CCD Coalition For Cultural Diversity (Quebec)
    CCD Consular Consolidated Database
    CCD Coherent Change Detection (image processing)
    CCD Construction Change Directive
    CCD Convention de Lutte Contre La Désertification (French: Convention to Combat Desertification; UN)
    CCD Corporate Communications Department
    CCD Cabinet Committee on Disinvestment (India)
    CCD Centre for Communication and Development (Bangladesh)
    CCD Certified Clinical Densitometrist (bone density certification)
    CCD Computer Controlled Display
    CCD Contract Completion Date
    CCD Closed Cycle Diesel
    CCD Chemical Composition Distribution
    CCD Convention Internationale de Lutte Contre La Désertification (French: International Convention to Combat Desertification)
    CCD Commission Coopération Développement (French: Committee on Cooperation and Development; est. 1984)
    CCD Chemical Control Division (EPA)
    CCD Computer Crimes Division
    CCD County Conservation Districts
    CCD Counseling and Career Development
    CCD Common Connectivity Device
    CCD Consumer and Computation Division (Cypress Semiconductor Corporation; San Jose, CA)
    CCD Courage the Cowardly Dog (cartoon show)
    CCD Chattahoochee Country Dancers (Atlanta, GA)
    CCD Conference on Copyright for Digital Millennium
    CCD Calcium Compensation Depth (oceanography)
    CCD Coastal Conservation Department
    CCD Catalytic Combustion Detector
    CCD Catholic Christian Doctrine (common, but incorrect)
    CCD Conceptual Common Denominator
    CCD Configuration Control Decision
    CCD Certified Camp Director
    CCD Committee on Commerce and Distribution
    CCD Center for Character Development
    CCD Center for Culture and Development (various locations)
    CCD Configuration Control Document(s)
    CCD Certified Christian Doula
    CCD Communauté de Communes du Diois
    CCD Central City Dump
    CCD Cambodian Community Day (Cambodia)
    CCD Construction Completion Date
    CCD Changeling Control Division (comic strip)
    CCD Chair Command Disconnect
    CCD Category Code Directory
    CCD Constants Change Display (NASA)
    CCD Checkout Command Decoder
    CCD Comite Civil de Dialogo (Spanish: Civil Dialogue Committee; Zapatista National Liberation Front; Mexico)
    CCD Civil Censorship Division (Civil Intelligence Section, Supreme Command, Allied Powers of the Far East Command)
    CCD Category Class Diagram
    CCD Center for Clean Development
    CCD Combat Capability Document (US Air Force)
    CCD Call Center Dashboard (shortcuts that automatically open applications in a call center)
    CCD Concept Capability Demonstrator (EU)
    CCD Complementary Coded Decimal
    CCD Computerized Circuit Design, Inc.
    CCD Chartered Creative Director (AAPRMA)
    CCD Committed Completion Date
    CCD Central Cloudy Dystrophy (eye disorder)
    CCD Continental Communications Division
    CCD Configuration Control Drawing
    CCD Coarse Control Damper
    CCD Category Code Document
    CCD Cursor Controlled Device
    CCD Correspondence Control Division (White House)
    CCD Ciena CoreDirector (Ciena)
    CCD Configuration Control Directive
    CCD Critically Controlled Document
    CCD City Civil Defense Director
    CCD Committee on Corporate Development
    CCD Central Coordination Disturbance
    CCD Central Cell Density
    CCD California Conservatory of Dance (Mission Viejo, CA)
    CCD Corporate Customer Database (AAFES)
    CCD Client Contractual Dependency
    CCD Conception Coordination Décoration (French design company)
    CCD Creative Communications & Design (est. 2003; Macedonia, OH)
    CCD Center for Constitutional Dialogue (Nepal)
    CCD Customer Care Department
    CCD Comprehensive Child Development
    CCD Control of Communicable Diseases (various locations)
    CCD Christian Commission for Development (est. 1982)
    CCD Comfortable Clothing Day
    CCD Centros Comunitarios Digitales (Spanish: Digital Community Centres; Mexico)
    CCD Course Code Directory (Florida Department of Education)
    CCD Comprehensive Community Development
    CCD Climate Change Division (various locations)
    CCD City Centre Development (various locations)
    CCD Combatant Craft Division (US DoD)
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Assuming that the above prefers Colony Collapse Disorder. I found this.

    Colony collapse disorder (CCD) is a phenomenon in which worker bees from a beehive or European honey bee colony abruptly disappear. While such disappearances have occurred throughout the history of apiculture, the term colony collapse disorder was first applied to a drastic rise in the number of disappearances of Western honey bee colonies in North America in late 2006.

    Previously I made the comparison that Neonics and CCD have appeared in roughly the same time frame. I received a reply that CCD has accoured prior to the development of neonics. the above says they did not. CCD did not exist according to the above until 2006. You can decide if it was in 2006 that the condition get it's new name. or that it in fact did not exist. I tend to think that something different is happening and the evidence is it was given a different name.

    Also you cannot define something that no one knows what it is.

    "Multiple possible causes of CCD have been identified. In 2007, some authorities attributed the problem to biotic factors such as Varroa mites and insect diseases (i.e., pathogens[5] including Nosema apis and Israel acute paralysis virus).[6][7] Other proposed causes include environmental change-related stresses,[8] malnutrition, pesticides (e.g.. neonicotinoids such as clothianidin and imidacloprid[9][10][11]), and migratory beekeeping. More speculative possibilities have included both cell phone radiation[12][13] and genetically modified (GM) crops with pest control characteristics."

    Notice above neonicotinoids are specifically listed. with no known answer. none are exempt from suspicion. To give exemption is foolhardy. Neonics are guilty because CCD exists and they are on the list.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Still waiting for Strom to reply. She's the one who made the statement. I've read many definitions of CCD.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    dan, i'm not aware of anyone who has exempted neonics as a possible factor, are you?

    being guilty and being on the list of possible suspects are two different things, no?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    of course randy is trying to balance the science with the field work, the article you read was published in the 'american bee journal'. it was written to a beekeeping audience

    here is the most recent review:

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick...ed-pesticides/
    That's what I like about Randy, he is able to explain things relevant to beekeepers. I cant comb over every detail in a study, I need someone who I can trust to present me with the findings, in an un biased fashion
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    dan, i'm not aware of anyone who has exempted neonics as a possible factor, are you?

    being guilty and being on the list of possible suspects are two different things, no?
    your exactly right squarepeg
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    dan, i'm not aware of anyone who has exempted neonics as a possible factor, are you?

    being guilty and being on the list of possible suspects are two different things, no?
    My personal opinion is that neonics can be much more of a problem when combined with other things, particularity fungicides and miteicides. By themselves I have noticed no problems where my hives are located. My worst poisoning was from fungicides sprayed in an apple orchard. No neonics within 10 miles.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    we use fungicides on a lot of our field crops, I have not seen anything unusual after spraying. do you know what they are spraying on the apples?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Not sure, it was the adjoining orchard. But when I took my bees into the orchard they were strong, mostly 7-8 frames. They were going downhill at petal drop and then some took until July to recover and some haven't made the winter. I suspect pollen poisoning.Maybe some pesticide residue in the tanks. I spoke to the farmer and he refused to tell me what it was, just "it won't hurt your bees. Some of the spray was withing 50 yards of my hives.
    Last edited by camero7; 02-27-2013 at 07:24 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    Not sure, it was the adjoining orchard. But when I took my bees into the orchard they were strong, mostly 7-8 frames. They were going downhill at petal drop and then some took until July to recover and some haven't made the winter. I suspect pollen poisoning.Maybe some pesticide residue in the tanks. I spoke to the farmer and he refused to tell me what it was, just "it won't hurt your bees. Some of the spray was withing 50 yards of my hives.
    This is all quite believable. Maybe your response to his comment should have been "I sure hope not because if there is something in there killing my bees then I might lose my bees and you might not get much of an apple crop this year either". I am convinced that fungicides are detrimental to bees to some degree based on some peculiarities that I have observed in some hives that have just come off of the Almonds. The signs do seem to disappear pretty quickly though.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    He had a beekeeper bring in bees 2 days later. My farmer wanted bees at King bloom so I was in early. Don't know how the other beekeeper fared. Not going back there this year. Maybe I need to quit pollination altogether. I have some small contracts that are pretty good and I'll keep those but those orchard forests may be too toxic.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    But when I took my bees into the orchard they were strong, mostly 7-8 frames. They were going downhill at petal drop and then some took until July to recover and some haven't made the winter.
    And you pollinate apples because...why? Now you know why I quit after 20 years.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    I'm joining you! I'm also not pollinating cran anymore. Too much trouble with the hives after coming out. I lost money on my pollination contracts this year. Sucks, thought it would work out. Should have asked you.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    This will make Strom scream
    http://www.mondaq.com/x/224116/Life+...Neonicotinoids

    there was insufficient data to conclude there was any link between the use of neonicotinoids and "bee colony collapse disorder," a key contributor to increases in bee colony decline.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    interesting link cam.

    despite the lack of any tangible results one way or the other, it looks like the eu commission is still considering a vote soon to suspend neonic use for two years, even though it will mean 20% in the yields of some crops and considerable economic loss.

    it will be interesting to see how they vote.

    i am not aware of any such measures being contemplated on this side of the atlantic.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    I'm joining you! I'm also not pollinating cran anymore. Too much trouble with the hives after coming out. I lost money on my pollination contracts this year. Sucks, thought it would work out. Should have asked you.
    Are their pesticide problems in cranberry or is it just the poor quality of the pollen and lack of nectar?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Summer bees vs winter bees?

    I think it's suspicious in the extreme that neonics came on to the market in 2003 and CCD got its recognition in 2006. Is it just the neonics? Probably not, what no-one seems to be testing for is synergism between these and the plethora of other agrichemicals used to control other pests and diseases. Why they aren't testing for this is obvious, the number of variables is huge and the complexity of such a study would be quite extreme and so equally expensive to run.

    BTW I think it very bad form to personally attack someone for expressing an opinion, Stromnessbees has done nothing but ask a question based on their current understanding of the science. Is their understanding right or wrong? I don't know, but they have a right to question and postulate, and we had/have the right to answer and expand on the science and so either confirm or disprove things.

    What we don't have a right to do is to vilify and insult a person just because their reading lead them to a different understanding of the facts. <--this is separate because I think it's an important point that should not be missed.....

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