Not going well need advise.

**tommyt** · 03-07-2013, 07:50 AM

I have no idea or at least at the time will I give my opinion

I would like to know if I'm the only one
That doesn't see the pictures,I read of in his post

Not even an erro of missing picture

If it is/was neonics
I think stromm got lucky in his /her diagnoses
He did not ask anything just replied
Was just a guess post not at all based on facts
The first post was vague to say the least how could he
Know neonics
Just like a doc telling you, you have a bad heart from listening
to your voice over a phone

Useless post
Both his and mine

**NeilV** · 03-07-2013, 08:12 AM

Even assuming Neonics cause CCD (which may be true) it's pretty squirrely to assume that every winter hive death is either CCD or from neonics.

I had one hive die out similar to the description in the original post, and another that is following suit. I've got other hives that are doing just dandy in the same location. I live in a city, and my bees are not going to be exposed to neonics, as there are no field crops whatsoever anywhere my bees fly.

Bees have died in winter since the beginning of time.

In my case, I suspect at least one of these two hives had Nosema. They appeared to have it last fall, as they would not eat medicated syrup. I tried dusting them with a combination of powdered sugar and Fumigillin, but that did not do the trick either. Maybe they had something else wrong with them. They surely had a great deal of stress and not enough pollen due to drought. That could be it too. Could be a lot a things, really.

But just because a hive dies in winter does not mean neonics are involved at all.

I don't have any ties to either the commercial beekeeping industry or the pesticide industry. I want newbees to recognize that just because somebody is on a crusade, however justified it may turn out to be, does not mean he is right and unbiased. It may mean that the newbee would be better off seeking a different source for guidance about how to keep bees.

**JD's Bees** · 03-07-2013, 08:25 AM

I do alcohol wash test for varroa from winter deadout clusters and do find mites.
What I don't know is if you can interpret those numbers the same as from a live colony but it will show if varroa population was high or not. One sample from 2011 had 45 mites.

**delber** · 03-07-2013, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by tommyt

I would like to know if I'm the only one
That doesn't see the pictures,I read of in his post

Not even an erro of missing picture

I am in the same boat. I've read of them being referred to, but can't find them anywhere. There's a reference to them. . .

Originally Posted by jpgero

I was finally able to upload the pictures, they may help. Also, I tried to provide additional clarity to the different questions you asked.

I would love to see them. Sounds like a similar situation to one of mine this year. I lose 3 or perhaps 4 we'll see soon, but 2 were MY fault. Too much moisture. One I have no idea, and the last may be the exact situation that's being described here. (This one was / is next to two other hives that are also thriving, so if it was poisoned then how did the other 2 go unscathed?) I'd like to not only see the pictures, but also have an explanation of being poisoned as everyone else is looking for.

**jonathan** · 03-07-2013, 11:06 AM

To see the photos, go to the first post on the thread, click on the posters name (jpgero) then click 'photos' in his profile.

Edit
Or just click 'Photos' in the link below.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/member.php?90066-jpgero

Photo number 7 seems to show a lot of mites in the floor debris but a little bit more magnification would settle the issue.

**Rader Sidetrack** · 03-07-2013, 11:16 AM

> To see the photos, go to the first post on the thread, click on the posters name (jpgero) then click 'photos' in his profile.

I've looked at my profile, plus plenty of other members, and never realized that photos could be uploaded there!

FYI, the link to add photos is on the left side of the page, called "Add Album."

**Rader Sidetrack** · 03-07-2013, 11:26 AM

Some of the photos jpgpero posted in the "lost hive" album appear to have a bluish-green mold on the combs. If it is mold, there may have been excessive condensation in the hive. Wet bees don't do well in cold weather.

Consider a top vent, or top entrance, at least in winter.

**Oldtimer** · 03-07-2013, 12:51 PM

Well I didn't know there were pics either but found them by following Jonathans instructions.

Pic 4 is significant, it shows a frame with dead brood, very patchy. It is consistent with death by mites, although not definitely, the pic is too blurry for a good enough look.

For a hive to die of mites, the hive does not die till there are enough mites to infest pretty much every brood cell, some of them with more than one mite, killing the larva before emergence. The adult bees are weak as most of them had a mite in the cell with them. This is the final stage of death by mites and the hive cannot be saved, even if the mites are treated, unless more healthy bees are added also.

When the hive is in this final stage, brood is not being cared for properly and becomes very patchy. Bees attempt to clean out dead larvae but often just the top part of the larva is chewed away. eventually all adult bees stop work completely, going into a helpless stage for a while, before dying. The brood combs left behind can be exactly as per the pic.

To really know, we would pic the caps off some cells that could have mites (now dead) trapped inside and see what's happening.

However the photo as shown is not enough, on it's own, to conclusively say death by mites, but it is certainly consistent with death by mites. If I was examining this hive in person myself, mites would be the first thing I would look for further evidence of.

**FlowerPlanter** · 03-07-2013, 01:03 PM

CCD equipment is contaminated right? (if it's CCD) So if he uses the same equipment and the bees are fine it's not CCD?
Also read bees will not rob out a CCD hive. Have you had any warm days that your other bees were fling?

How many other hives do you have? How are their populations?
Does CCD just hit one hive in an apiary? I thought it wiped them all out at the same time?

**delber** · 03-07-2013, 01:08 PM

Thanks Jonathan!!! I didn't know that pictures could be there either. I've only known of putting them in the actual thread. Good to know!!!

**gmcharlie** · 03-08-2013, 07:40 AM

Flower to the best of my knowledge CCD would have left NO dead bees in the hive. There was a link to a website here the other day that had an intersting article on reuseing comb...... Basis of the study was that reuseing comb was overall good. with some rotation for new. but it also noted that winter mortality on new comb was higher than old comb......
I can tell you that I have reuesed deadout comb for 10 years, and its not been a problem.