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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default puzzled after inspection

    Hi guys. I just took a look in the hives.
    Hive 1. 2 x ten frame deeps bottom with few eggs and brood, top box jammed with honey.
    Hive 2. 2 x ten frame deeps and 1 x ten frame medium.
    --> tons of bees and a lot of stored honey ( top deep and the medium both full of honey) but no brood/eggs. Couldnt find the queen but MAN are there a lot of bees in there!!!
    Hive 3. Was a small nuc/split that started up early august/mid august.
    ->1x ten frame deep and 1 x ten frame medium ( they havent done much of anything with the medium yet). I found the queen. Has eggs and larvae and stored honey. Also there were some wasps in there!! I assume this is because this hive is too small and weak to defend itself?

    ok so questions are:
    1. Is hive 2 queenless or has she just stopped laying for winter? The mood of the bees seemed quiet and content.
    2. Should i combine hives 2 and 3?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    4,475

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    You have to do a queen test to be sure if the hive is indeed queen less now.
    If you see eggs/larvae from the other hives and this #2 hive has none then you really have to find out.
    To do a queen test, take a small plastic queen cage and put one queen inside. You can find one queen from
    the other hives, either one will be fine.
    Take this plastic queen cage along with the queen inside to put on the top bar of the suspected queen less hive.
    If the worker bees are fanning next to the cage saying the queen is here, the queen is here, then you have a queen less hive.
    Sometime even a LWs hive if they are calm after a prolong period of queen less, since the LWs already replaced the laying queen inside.
    If the workers are biting the cage and queen then there might be an old queen inside still. Need to feed the hive to get the queen laying again.
    If not then it is time to get this hive a new mated queen. Combining a LWs hive with a queen right hive will get the queen killed by balling.
    Need to be extra careful now since the coming of Fall and winter a mated queen will be very scarce.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    all of the hives are fed with sugar syrup and pollen patties.
    I dont have a queen cage but i may be able to get a queen from a local bee keeper to try and see if hive 2 is queenless.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Troy, MO
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Just install frame with eggs, they will make queen cells if queenless, provided they are not laying worker.....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Oh no that's what my wife just told me to do....I hate it when that happens !!!lol

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    4,475

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Iowatree, are you sure you want the OP to make a new queen at this
    time of the year? I mean winter is getting close and it takes a month to
    make a new mated queen. What happens when the virgin fail to come back on
    her mating flight? Then in October the cold will set in perhaps of snow too.
    At this late I would just go buy a mated queen if this hive is queen less now.
    Why don't you make a queen cage tube out of the window screen and use your
    other queen to test it out? If you are going to get a new queen might as well introduce
    her anyways. Or you can make a nuc split if the other hives population will support it with the new bought queen.
    It is too risky to make a new queen and don't know if the local drones will support the mating process.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    If they build queen cells won't I then know a combine would be safe?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Troy, MO
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Beepro I think Aran was trying to determine if hive was queenless. Then you can go from there...raise queen, buy one, or combine😎

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    So I just put a frame of eggs and brood into hive 2....I'll watch a few days for development of Queen cells and if none within say a week should I just do the combine ?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    When you say "no brood or eggs" what exactly do you mean? Was there any capped brood or absolutely no brood at all? If they went through a queen replacement they will become completely bloodless (no capped or open brood) for about a week before the new queen starts laying. As others have said. A frame of eggs is an easy check. However if they are going over to laying workers they will not build cells. It is always possible that they tried to re queen and she did not make it back from her mating flight.

    From my experience, there will almost always be some eggs present if the queen is in there.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Absolutely no brood or eggs at all ..nada.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    4,475

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Ahh, I see your point now. So why waste the time and a frame of bees that may or may not
    make some cells? It only take them a day or 2 to make the cells if they are queen less.

    "However if they are going over to laying workers they will not build cells."
    To correct a LWs hive, beekeepers will put a frame of eggs/young larvae in there for 3
    consecutive weeks. Because the bees are not from the LWs hive but instead come from a
    different donor hive they will make new queen cells. This is another way to get some good
    queen cells from. So they do build the cells over time. Others have mention that the open broods
    will suppressed the LWs too. True or not I cannot measure it.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    [QUOTE=beepro;1329063]So why waste the time and a frame of bees that may or may not
    make some cells?.[/dQUOTE]

    It is not a waste of resources. If they don't make a queen, they will raise the brood. And that brood will supplement the hive.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,637

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    There are no eggs in the hive ... none. There is no laying worker to worry about ... yet.

    I agree to insert a frame with eggs immediately. You'll know within a few days if they are queenless. If they start building queen cells cut them all out and you can either combine #2 & #3, or purchase a mated queen somewhere. Too late in the season to try to raise a new queen in Rochester. You're running out of time.
    To everything there is a season....

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Apologies for a really dumb question but what does LW hive mean?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,637

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    That's an abbreviation for "Laying Worker".
    To everything there is a season....

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Laying workers - LW

    i agree with no eggs they have no laying workers. But with no brood pheromones in the last 21 days at least, it may not be long, if they are queen less. Get a frame of eggs and brood in there quickly for insurance. And then as others have said,if they start building cells, order a queen

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    rochester ny
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Perfect thanks a ton guys I'll keep u posted.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    1,683

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    Quote Originally Posted by Iowatree View Post
    Just install frame with eggs, they will make queen cells if queenless, provided they are not laying worker.....
    This would be great earlier in the year. too late now. By the time they make a queen and she starts laying and brood starts emerging it will be almost winter.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Isle of Wight, VA
    Posts
    1,411

    Default Re: puzzled after inspection

    The frame of open brood with it's bee larvae pheromones will help prevent the colony from developing laying workers while the OP determines if the colony is indeed queenless. A couple of queen cells will tell him that fact without having to try and track down a plastic queen cage from someone else to do the test with a queen in a cage. I don't believe the OP is going to let the hive raise the queen that they make in the Queen cell, he just wants assurance that they are truly queenless before he does a combine of #2 and #3 for the end of the season.

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