my first trap out/cutout need suggestions

[nathan-D]

Here is a pic of where they are. They are in between the fireplace and stuckoed soffit just under the rain gutter. there is about 1/2 inch gap between the soffit and fireplace. Owner says they have been there maybe a year. I think I can manage a trap out, which will leave honey and comb inside somewhere. With a cut out I have to go through concrete stucko to get into the soffit if they are not there they maybe in the attic, (doesn't look like there is an attic unless there is a whole extending into the attic, or the fireplace, or maybe they made a home down the block. The roof is a flat lanai roof extending past a hip roof. Oh yeah I'm brand new to all of this and don't really have the contstruction knowledge to do a cut out.

Nathan

IMG_20130221_162050.jpg

Here is a closer view:


IMG_20130221_162119.jpg

and the long distance view, in the corner by the fireplace:

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[nathan-D]

the entrance is about 4" tall from the edge of the soffit up to the rain gutter, but it's hard to see because of the shadow. I got up pretty close and was not attacked by the bees, and I did not notice them bringing in any pollen like my bees at home have been doing.

[Mr.Beeman]

Ok nathan, listen to my words of wisdom as I do this type of work.... get another beekeeper who knows a thing or two about construction to assist you. Ideally, one with a bee vac and all the tools necessary to do a proper cut out.
You will have one ticked off customer when there is honey dripping from the soffits if you decide to perform a trap out.

[Intheswamp]

Mr. Beeman, I don't really do this kind of work but I thought the idea was that once you had the bees out of the cavity and into the trap-out box that you remove the funnel and let them rob the honey out of the original cavity. I can see where beetles might cause a problem for nathan-D since he is deep inside shb territory but in your locale I wouldn't think that would be a worry for you (very low shb numbers). Is there another reason that the honey would be dripping from the soffit? I'm seriously curious about this.

Thanks,
Ed

[tommyt]

Yes yes yes you can't trap them out
When its finished cut a large whole to the entrance
And put some lemon grass oil,honey be healthy in a feeder
Or some honey near the entrance,this will start the robbing
Faster leave it open for 4 days and you should be good
I watch my bees clean a full med Souper in less than two days

Trapout work well just besure every thing is closed up
Except for the hole your trap is set on
Day 2 put in egg/larva frame and don't open it for a week
If it becomes over crowded add a second or take that one home
And repeat including the egg/larva but careful if you do this
Be sure there is a good amount of bees before you add the e/l frame
the bees really flush the first week or two then it slows

Good luck
Be sure to,post your results

[nathan-D]

I spoke with the owner and he is not opposed to me cutting into the stucco soffit or removing facia, he can replace that himself. I also informed him that the bees might not be there and could be further in the attic but I don't think so. I'd prefer to get the queen and the comb rather than trap out, the owner is most concerned about leaking rotting honey. If the bees will rob it out then the trap out sounds like a better idea, I do have a frame of eggs, larvae, and capped brood to put in a trap.

[Mr.Beeman]

However, nests which form under eaves, in wall voids and basically anywhere people live can be trouble. Besides presenting an immediate threat in the form of getting stung, allowing such nesting can only lead to further problems. Honey stored away deep in wall voids can only leak and turn bad over time and during the process lead to structural problems. When such nests are identified, it is best to have them removed by a bee keeper. Do not allow them to reside in or on your structure. Bee nests will both degrade the building as well as pose a real hazard to people and pets. In short, bee nests in or on homes is not acceptable.

Lastly, the remains of a nest that has mostly been removed or destroyed can present other types of problems. The honey left behind, as well as the lingering scent trails from the bees which were once active, will almost always attract other pests. These pests could turn out to be ants, beetles, other bees or some kind of honey eating animal like skunks or bear. Many times these pests will become active in homes where a bee nest was once present. Additionally, honey will rot as it ages. Spoiled honey smells bad and the odor will eventually find it’s way into living areas. And if the bad smell doesn’t prompt a thorough cleanup, the damage of it as it leaks through wall and ceilings most certainly will. Aging honey combs will decompose and as they break down, the rancid honey will ooze through walls. Dark spots on walls and ceilings are a sure sign of rotting honey and most nests hold enough honey to cause this type of damage following bee removal.
Not to mention the rotting eggs and larvae. I have been told this rotting smell can be best described as garbage mixed with wet grass clippings left in the Texas sun for a week.
The last thing a homeowner wants to see is more bee activity due to a robbing frenzy, IF it even occurs.
There are also diseases associated with the rotting comb and contents.

[Intheswamp]

Mr. Beeman, your reply sounded interesting, kinda like an advertisement...so I googled part of it. I found most of the wording at http://www.bugspray.com/article/hone...eybee-problems . Are you asscociated with this company? Just curious.

nD, remember that once you get the bees/comb out of the cavity that the cavity needs to be sealed *very* well so that bees can't re-infest the area.

Ed

[Mr.Beeman]

Nope.... just looked it up and picked it out from several sites on the subject.
We once had a customer who insisted that a swarm of bees moved in to their roof structure (no way to access this portion of roof) just to weeks before she contacted us. We performed a trap out and everything went according to hoyle. We were fortunate enough and trapped out the queen as well as thousands of bees. One of our best producing, strongest hives.

Two weeks later, temps got above 90 (in the attic was well over 120) and guess what... honey dripping through the ceiling and walls. I guess those bees were there longer than two weeks!
Talk about a mess! We have made it SOP to inform all our potential customers of all the pros and cons between a trap out and cut out before we start. They ultimately decide the course of action.

[Intheswamp]

Ok, I was just wondering about the website.

Sounds like a mess indeed in the incident you shared. Did you remove the cone and allow the bees to rob out their old hive?

Ed

[Mr.Beeman]

The bees were long gone to our apiary when the honey dripped through. The homeowner who is a type of handyman, removed the comb and repaired the damage himself.

[rtoney]

There is no reason a trap out done properly would not work just fine. if robbing is allowed and complete there should be no honey left to rot or drip. If your owner is not averse to doing the repair I would take out a section of soffit, there is a good chance they will be confined to one area if not it will give you better access to see what needs to be done. Good luck

[nathan-D]

It's all moot now, the owner decided he doesn't have the money and want's me to hold off. I told him $150 for just a trap out and all the dangers that go with it and $300 to cut it out properly. I think he wanted it done for free thinking I would not want him to kill the bees. I really would have trapped them for nothing because I do want the bees more than I wanted the money. Now I have some things to consider though, I never though of allowing the bees to rob their own honey or other bees by baiting the entrance.

[Bubbles]

If you ever get the chance to try a trapout, you might want to consider the Cleo Hogan trapout. It's supposed to entice the queen to come out also.

http://honeysunapiary.wordpress.com/...gans-bee-trap/