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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,244

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Nor do they correspond to what I have experienced. We have seen a real explosion in the planting of neonic treated row crops in recent years in our area. We not only haven't seen an overall deterioration in bee health but our bees have generally much better in recent years and this isn't just a random claim, it's one borne out in actual frame counts in California. Our varroa control is much better though, hmmmmmm.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,803

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    My bees were in California all year, not exposed to agricultural spraying or crops, only residential, and they died also. I'm inclined to chalk up my loses to lack of treatments, mite overload and subsequent viruses.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Quote Originally Posted by JBJ View Post
    Properly cared for Almond hives should have been fed many times since November... .

    We all face pesticide challenges and set backs from time to time and constant vigilance is required to get by in this day and age. That being said those I know doing the best coping with these challenges are feeding a lot and way in to nutrition which can take a lot of stress off a hive.
    Well said John.

    What really kills me is, the said keeper moves his/her hives near a commercially grown crop, then cry's foul IF they get sprayed.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,646

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    whats more disgustings than pesticide poisining is Scam articles and Tree huggers falsehood. after reading it, is misses a ton of info, references problems in CA with NO names No credits, no author... no facts. just thory, from someone in another country...... Just as well write how the uptight knickers in the UK were contributing to global warming....

    Wish the Moderators here were as hard on this stuff as they are other things........this post should be wiped

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    So the colonies were strong in November, after going through a massive drought in the mid-West this past summer. And the bees crashed by mid-winter due to neonics? Sounds about right except the neonic part.

    How about an alternative explanation that seems to me much more credible. Colonies under drought conditions can't raise winter bees, and populous colonies of old bees don't survive the winter.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Edinburgh, UK
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    This has got very little to do with 'commercially sprayed' crops. The neonics are almost always applied as a seed-coating at planting time and the scale of the plantings defies belief. The USDA figures - from memory, are that a total of around 243 million acres of US crops are seed-treated with Clothianidin. That is ten times the area of the entire country of Scotland, which is no small place. The figures included 92 million acres of neonic treated corn - which is virtually the country's entire corn crop; close to another 100 million acres of wheat, soybeans and canola, and the rest was cotton.

    That raises the question: is there anywhere in the entire USA where bees do not have access to systemic neonicotinoids? According to some studies, around 98% of the poison applied to the seeds at planting time, is lost into the soil, where it can remain toxic for up to six years. So if a farmer plants a follow on crop of 'untreated' plants, it makes no difference because there is enough neuro-toxin in the soil to make the next six years of crops toxic to bees and other pollinators.

    The Purdue University study by Christian Krupke estimated that there was enough Clothianidin on a single corn seed to kill 200,000 individual bees. That does not happen in practice, because most of it is lost into the soil, but the tiny amount that rises through the plant into the pollen is still 7,600 times more toxic to insects than DDT was.

    Another study concluded that the 'half life' of Clothianidin on some clay soils, was as much as 19 years - so after 57 years, there would still be 1/8th of the original neonicotinoid left to poison following plants. And that is from only one planting. The reality is that farmers are planting neonic treated corn, season after season, on the same ground; so the possibility exists that hundreds of millions of acres of US farmland has been permanently contaminated with neonics for decades to come. In other words, if the neonics were banned today, the residual poison would continue to kill bees and other pollinators for many years to come.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    707

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    He wouldn't be complaining if he knocked the mites and gave them the proper nutrition back in August...
    Lot of things in the article don't sound right.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Edinburgh, UK
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    whats more disgustings than pesticide poisining is Scam articles and Tree huggers falsehood. after reading it, is misses a ton of info, references problems in CA with NO names No credits, no author... no facts. just thory, from someone in another country...... Just as well write how the uptight knickers in the UK were contributing to global warming....Wish the Moderators here were as hard on this stuff as they are other things........this post should be wiped

    Your reasoning is so faultless and your concentration on the facts is so accurate, that I'm lost for words. Are you familiar with the phrase 'ad hominem attack' - that's a legal way of saying don't read the message - just shoot the messenger. It's the classic strategy of industry schills. Your last comment implies you don't agree with Freedom of Speech and free discussion?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    The train wrecks in Ca this year are quite real. I attribute them to the drought conditions and poor varroa control.
    Seen this before...

    "Colonies under drought conditions can't raise winter bees, and populous colonies of old bees don't survive the winter."
    Bingo.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,793

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    I agree with INFORMED freedom of speech backed by good studies. You've failed on all accounts.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    393

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Another study concluded that the 'half life' of Clothianidin on some clay soils, was as much as 19 years - so after 57 years, there would still be 1/8th of the original neonicotinoid left to poison following plants. And that is from only one planting.
    Got a reference or is 'another study' as good as it gets.
    Where was it published and who was the author.

    The Xerces Society report, Are Neonicotinoids killing bees, citing an EPA document quotes 148-1155 days for Clothianidin depending upon soil type.

    http://www.xerces.org/wp-content/upl...s-Society1.pdf

    The European parliament quotes the same figure of 148-1155 days

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...51&language=EN

    pesticide info.org quotes an average soil half life of 214 days

    http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...Rec_Id=PC40063

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,784

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    when making up an article on bee death, and directly linking it to Neonicotinoids you need a bit of proof to back the story. You sound like your making an anti neonicotinoids article using the beekeeper as the frount. With no facts and no references, might as well just run that in the daily paper. It will get alot of attention there,

    just waiting for questions and comments from my neighbours on this one . . .
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Belfast, Ireland
    Posts
    393

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    With no facts and no references, might as well just run that in the daily paper. It will get alot of attention there,
    That is exactly what happens.
    The UK press run the same story 'all the bees are dying' over and over again.
    Even the quality press do this, the Guardian and the Independent.

    The non beekeeping general public think we have CCD due to erroneous press reports, (we don't), and imagine that our bees are on the way out.
    In actual fact they are doing reasonably well in the UK although I expect heavier losses than usual this winter as it has been cool and wet for the past 8 months.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,784

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Its very well written , and attention getting, but thats all it is.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Quote Originally Posted by borderbeeman View Post
    I'm lost for words.
    best news I've heard today.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    He has issued the article in this way to encourage other bee-farmers to come forward and tell what has been happening every year since 2003. The fact that 10,000,000 colonies have been lost, and apart from Dave Hackenberg, almost nobody has 'gone public' should tell you something about the kind of pressures that are being brought to bear: politically, commercially and socially. -borderbeeman
    Quite a few beekeepers have "gone public," I think. Why wouldn't they be willing to report losses to colony collapse (CCD)? So far, no definitive cause has been pinpointed, as far as I know. I've read quite a few accounts even here on Beesource of people who provide information on hives they have lost to CCD or CCD-like symptoms. Hackenberg was the first, but far from the only to report losses. And much larger losses by individuals have been widely reported in the media.

    I'm not sure that the losses sound quite so massive when the numbers are reported a different way. (http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=15572) "Ten million colonies lost" attracts far more attention than "11 percent of colonies per year" attributed to CCD-like losses.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Stromness, Scotland
    Posts
    124

    Thumbs Up Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Quote Originally Posted by borderbeeman View Post
    The article can be downloaded from Google Docs here:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7FC...it?usp=sharing
    Thank you for the report, Bbman.

    I just wish more beekeepers had the guts to write up their story and go public. - But obviously they fear criticism and loss of business.

    A look at this thread so far shows exactly what is thrown at those that dare to speak out. The pro neonic propaganda machine uses it's dirtiest tricks to discredit those who go against the mighty chemical industry, as they fear massive losses when these products get banned.

    A call to all those posters who demand to see the name of the author of the report: identify yourselves so that we can check your credentials!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,793

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    The pro neonic propaganda machine uses it's dirtiest tricks to discredit those who go against the mighty chemical industry, as they fear massive losses when these products get banned.

    A call to all those posters who demand to see the name of the author of the report: identify yourselves so that we can check your credentials!
    I am not pro neonic. It's just that they are so much better than the organophosphates and,having been a farmer, I know how important insecticides can be. I also have not seen any real evidence that the neonics are that bad for bees, both in my own bees and in studies.

    I'm pretty well exposed if you click on my profile or go to my web site. Probably more transparent than you are!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,543

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    ....I heard that the author is Robert "Hughes" Russell.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Stromness, Scotland
    Posts
    124

    Default Re: Eye witness to colony collapse: Bee-farmer loses 2,000 hives in one month

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ....I heard that the author is Robert "Hughes" Russell.
    If that's correct, then well done Hughes for speaking out!

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