Need advice on capturing a feral hive

**tdsiders** · 02-17-2013, 12:04 PM

I have an opportunity to get a hive of bees that have taken up in an old oil furnace setting in the woods. They have been there at least three years. Should I wait till warmer weather and cut them out? Should I trap them out? I have never done a trap out. Or should I seal the entrances at night and bring them and the heater to my apiary and then what? Thanks in advance for your suggestions and advice.

**Rader Sidetrack** · 02-17-2013, 12:21 PM

Whether you do a trapout or cutout, they will need to generate wax to be able to use their new home. So it would be best to wait for warmer weather. They don't need a heater.

If you are interested in doing a trapout, you may be interested in this thread that has photos involving the Hogan Trapout method, this one from a tree:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ut-from-a-tree

Cleo Hogan is a Beesource member and has been very generous in offering specifics of his methods to Beesource members. You can PM him with your email address to receive a free document about the Hogan Trapout.

**Mr.Beeman** · 02-17-2013, 01:37 PM

Sounds like a perfect candidiate for a cut out. Just wait for warmer weather. Until then, watch jpthebeeman on youtube for cutout videos that will shed much needed light on the subject.
Cleo is THE MAN for trap outs though.

**shannonswyatt** · 02-17-2013, 03:28 PM

If you are not in a hurry and you have access to brood do a trap-out. If not, do a cutout. Wait until mid April though. If you are going to do a Hogan style trap-out you could attach the trap now and spring it later.

**Lazer128** · 02-17-2013, 04:25 PM

tdsiders: You are making reference to the heater that they are actually in, right? :-)

**tdsiders** · 02-17-2013, 06:39 PM

yes

**tdsiders** · 02-19-2013, 05:31 AM

Thanks everyone. I'm leaning towards the Hogan type trap out. I have the time and equipment .

**Mr.Beeman** · 02-19-2013, 05:46 AM

The only problem I see with performing a trap out is that the bees have to start to build comb, brood, and stores all over again.
With the cut out, you will have a "ready made" hive from day one with no to little set backs to the bees.
Why leave all the valuable brood, stores and comb behind to rot?
IMO, a trap out is performed when you are out of options and as a last ditch effort.
Either way good luck and take plenty of pics.

**tdsiders** · 02-19-2013, 06:27 AM

My thinking was to set it up now and leave it then once the queen moved into the hive body and started laying I could install a piece of queen excluder on tube and leave it until all brood had hatched out. Then add the cone to get remaining bees. Come back with one of my other hives and leave it for a couple of days and let them clean up. If I leave it that way maybe another swarm will take up in same place and it starts over. Wax moths maybe won't be an issue if my girls do a good job of cleaning the comb out. What do y'all think? Oh I do have access to drawn comb,brood and nurse bees to seed hive body. But as I said I'm leaning that way but still haven't made up my mind. I'm very open to more input.

**Cleo C. Hogan Jr** · 02-23-2013, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman

IMO, a trap out is performed when you are out of options and as a last ditch effort.

Mr Beeman.I understand your quote, but, just so people know, the greatest option for a trapout is to increase the number of colonies you have by getting free bees and not damaging the original colony. Add a new queen, or let the trapped bees make their own from unsealed brood. Three to five starts each year is common from a good colony, and you can do this in multiple years.

Cutouts are best for complete removal, and you absolutely need to remove all comb and scrape area, if possible, then paint the area with soapy water to discourage bees from coming back to this area.

If all else fails, do a trapout, and let the area be robbed out and hope for the best. Sometimes it is just not possible to get to the colony, and you have to do a trapout.

MrBeeman, I enjoy your posts, very informative.

cchoganjr

**Cleo C. Hogan Jr** · 02-23-2013, 05:48 PM

tdsiders...Let me see...If you are hoping to get multiple colonies from this source, why not just take 3-5 pounds of bees each time you have that many in the trap and either place a new queen, or add unsealed brood and let them make a new queen? If you get the original queen, during a good honey flow they will make themselves a new queen. Why completely trap them out, and hope another swarm will move in, Just take starts as you get 3-5 pounds in your trap, and leave the original colony.

Even if your girls do a good job of cleaning, wax moths will very likely be a huge problem,and may ruin the comb. SHB will be another problem if you are in SHB territory. Ants also a problem.

cchoganjr

**Mr.Beeman** · 02-23-2013, 06:34 PM

CJ, you are a wise man indeed. I could not agree with you more on your trapout option. If I had a colony that was allowed to remain where they took up residence, I would do as you stated.
Unfortunately, I have yet to have that perfect scenario yet. Although, I know of a bee tree location that may get a Hogan style trap out set up.

Thank you very much BTW.

**tdsiders** · 02-23-2013, 07:43 PM

That really sounds like the way to go for sure. I'm just going into my second year with bees and have never done a trap out. Could you tell me or direct me to one of your posts that would give me details on the best way to do this. I have access to drawn comb brood etc. just want to know exactly how to use them in order to keep getting starts.
Thanks.

**Cleo C. Hogan Jr** · 02-25-2013, 06:01 PM

tdsiders...Send me an e-mail cchoganjr@scrtc.com and I will send you all the info including photos of actual traps in progress.

I am in Florida for a month and my internet is very limited. Might take me a day or two to get back to you, but, I will respond. Just give me a little time.

Thanks.

cchoganjr