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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    thanks michael!
    Last edited by squarepeg; 03-16-2013 at 04:42 PM.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
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    5,252

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkayme View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to write this. I've enjoyed the back and forth, and being able to pick your brain a little.
    For sure. I appreciate hearing other opinions.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,714

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    For what it's worth, I built a few Palmer style nucs (the two story four frame each kind) to try out this summer. If I had a stronger fall flow, I'd try your system fully, but for me it's going to have to be late spring or early summer splits, after my honey flow, rather than fall splits.

    I'd recommend your system to others, and I can't wait to read your book. I'm just not certain I'd recommend your system for smaller beekeepers, or those starting out. But maybe it's just me.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,789

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    There is definitely a learning curve in raising nucs. I'm in the middle of the curve now. Great success last year, 50% loss this year. I did have bad varroa damage in most of the nuc losses this year [didn't treat them]. I need to rethink that this fall. I will monitor mite levels in my nucs from now on.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    southwest colorado
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    So does Mr. Palmer have a website where a newb can go to read up on his process ?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,277

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    i think it's more the recognizing that bees, brood, and queens are bounty of the apiary as well as wax and honey.

    michael has caused me to see the virtue of allowing for surplus bees, brood, and queens. the bonus is if done properly, the overall viability and sustainability of an apiary is improved.

    heck, you can probably come up with better queens and stronger nucs than some of the ones you can buy.

    some of his methods apply to my operation and some don't.

    but for the realization how beneficial it is to make increase and for giving me the motivation see it through i credit mp.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Jim81147, no website, click on the link in post #1 to see what we are talking about. Set aside a couple of hours when you can concentrate - it is a great presentation and you won't want to be disturbed. What I am waiting for is the book.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Posts
    80

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    I saw the MP nuc videos and was inspired to create some nucs. I started with 9 and lost 1. I have individual nucs, some mediums (3 boxes high) and a couple of deeps (two boxes high). I pushed them together and they share a telescoping top that I made. It was an experiment. All the nucs made their own queens over the summer either as emergency or a swarm cell pulled out of a regular hive. Making some mistakes but learning a lot.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,007

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkayme View Post
    Getting started with one hive, seeing if you like it, then expanding from there makes sense to me, financially. If you can afford the extra 1.5 hives, you should. But I think it's wrong to tell people they need to. Just my take on it.
    What! is this another acebirdism on beesource?
    Beekeeping is the cheapest hobby that I have ever tried. Sewing your own cloths is more expensive. The bees do all the work and all you have to do is build the crappiest home that most would not live in.
    God love you Specialkayme.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,714

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    I don't know if you are trying to insult me, disagree with me, or congratulate me.

    Whichever it is, I don't think I like it.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,007

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    I am in total agreement with you.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Canton, OH
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Is it feasible to start this process with very few hives? I have one surviving colony this year, in a nuc, with a locally produced queen, that I intend to put in a full sized box this spring and have it be my "production" colony. I have two other hives, started from packages last year, that both died over winter. Is it feasible for me to buy two packages, put them on drawn comb and feed to build them up, then split them in early summer into nucs and add queens from my bee club's queen rearing program? I still intend to catch swarms this year (if it is anything like it was here last year, we'll be swimming in them) but I sure would like to have a couple nucs going into winter of 2013.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Trinity, NC, USA
    Posts
    142

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Specialkayme,

    I feel that Michaels overwintering nucleus would bee advantageous to our climate in the Piedmont-Triad area! My strongest colony in a double ten frame deep hive was on five frames in the bottom deep and five frames in the top deep...

    I have noticed that colonies overwinter better in a small column shaped nest, tall and narrow.

    Also, I can't keep Georgia bees and queens alive through the winter. My local queens and bees winter great!

    Have you read Brother Adams book about keeping bees with nucleus colonies? Jay Smith also writes about overwintering in nucleus colonies!

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,277

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    >My local queens and bees winter great!

    no brag, just fact.

    most habitat that is desirable for bee, (i.e. a decent amount of wooded area withing a three mile radius, and water less than a minute away), is bound to have surviving wild colonies in the area.

    the ones that didn't survive the arrival and onslaught of varroa were replaced by the ones that did survive.

    feral bees are not subjected to the same stresses and artificial conditions that kept bees are. they are only subjected to the stresses that nature has to offer.

    feral bees produce drones that will introduce their survivor traits to managed bees when there is mating.

    the other advantage of raising your own queen is that you have the opportunity to evaluate her and her blossoming colony for performance. you get to select the one's that do really good right out of the gate.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,277

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    continued....

    combining locally adapted stock with a program of only taking surplus honey after leaving the bees the stores that they need,

    and not feeding artificially allow this stock to adapt to the local flows. i have watched mine brood up and brood down in anticipation of the changes in the flows.

    it's amazing, they make their decisions three weeks in advance in adjusting their populations to changes of the seasons and resource availibilty.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    fairfield, sc
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    I'm new to beekeeping but have been reading a lot and am really excited about it. I've watched your 2 video's online and have been intruiged and interested in what you've been able to accomplish and glad that you've taken the time to provide this info to the world. Thanks for that.
    I've ordered 2 packages and get them this sunday (easter) so monday should be a fun day as I put them into their new boxes. I've decided to use 10-frame Langstrom hives and have already made several medium and deep boxes in anticipation of hopefully doing well the first year. As there are alot of questions about beekeeping I'm interested in also raising queens and building some nucs - if possible. I was wondering if you have any comments on this idea I have. I've partially taken your process from the video's and extracted a possible formula to accomplish what I'm wanting to try.

    on 1 hive I was going to leave it 'alone' and add another deep if needed, followed by medium supers as needed.

    on the 2nd hive I was thinking of either building a dual-nuc deep box - separated so there are 2 'different' sides each containing 5 frames, or perhaps building 2 1/2 nuc-size nucs and putting either of them directly on top of my initial brood box. My thoughts with this is that perhaps I could get the queen to lay into both 'sections' of the upper box and generate some brood that I could then use to make some additional hives with. From what I've been reading the bees will create their own queen cells 'as needed' and this would then give me some 'nucs with brood' along with some queen cells that I could start another hive or 2 with. I should also be able to prevent (if that's possible) either absconding or swarming by reducing the colony size and forcing the 'new hive' to start it's own new hive. If this process works, then whenever I have enough brood in the top 'nuc' boxes - I can just move them into another 'new' 10-frame hive and let them start their own hive. Therodically this should work but I'm unsure if the existing queen - from the bottom and main hive, will lay into the 2 different sections of the nuc boxes. I could also potentially, by using the natural 'over-crowding' process force the bees from the different nucs to make some new queens for me and this would start the process 'all over' again.

    thoughts ??

    mark

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    There is definitely a learning curve in raising nucs. I'm in the middle of the curve now. Great success last year, 50% loss this year. I did have bad varroa damage in most of the nuc losses this year [didn't treat them]. I need to rethink that this fall. I will monitor mite levels in my nucs from now on.
    I think the problem was with your brood source. Focus your mite control there and your nucs won't have problems.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by rail View Post
    Have you read Brother Adams book about keeping bees with nucleus colonies? Jay Smith also writes about overwintering in nucleus colonies!
    Yes, and so did Thomas White Woodbury Esq in 1862, AI Root and CC Miller in 1891, Bro. Columban in 1900, LE Snelgrove in 1946, R O B Manley in 1948, Bro Adam in 1975, Vernon Vickery in 1991, and Kirk Webster in 1995.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    >My local queens and bees winter great!

    no brag, just fact.
    Winter??

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,789

    Default Re: Michael Palmer The Sustainable Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I think the problem was with your brood source. Focus your mite control there and your nucs won't have problems.
    thanks Mike

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