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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
    Posts
    876

    Default Treatment Free Queens

    Who do you know who sells treatment free production Queens. The only one I know of is B Weaver, Purvis is out since they only sell breeders now. Does Mike Bush sell Queens?
    https://www.facebook.com/stevesbees99
    Please visit my page, Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Bryant, AL
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Wolf Creek in TN

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Newport News, Va
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnypemberton View Post
    Wolf Creek in TN
    It says on their website that they were hit by a tornado, I have tried to contact them by phone and E-mail. Anyone know their status?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pisgah Forest, NC, USA
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    I can't confirm this for sure, but I heard from a local supplier that John and Ruth were getting out. Apparently John is in really poor health. Again, can't confirm this, but just what I heard from a local supplier.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
    Posts
    376

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Bjorn Apiaries in PA sells treatment free queens. He's in PA like me, so if you need them now you're out of luck. But if you want them later, you may want to check them out.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,679

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Is Wolf Creek treatment-free? From their website:

    Small cell bees, when used in conjunction with screen bottom boards along with powder sugar dusting in the fall, will give an effective chemical free control of Varroa.
    ok...that's not quite treatment free...but not too far off....but also on their website is: (and note that they suggest a treatment from chalkbrood among

    WOLF CREEK APIARIES
    930 HWY. 438
    CENTERVILLE, TN. 37033
    (931) 729-9229 ( PLEASE: Call before coming )
    NATURAL TREATMENTS
    VARROA MITES:
    1. Put 5-8 drops of Thyme oil in 16 ounces of mineral oil, shake it up and squirt it on
    a paper towel making a double SS. Then put it in the hive on top of the frames up
    till 3 weeks before the honey flow and anytime after the honey flow.
    2. Mix 1 Tablespoon of garlic powder with 1 cup of water in a blender on low speed
    for 2-3 minutes. Add the cup of blended mixture to a gallon of sugar water, mix
    by shaking, and feed it to the bees in early spring up till 3 weeks before the honey
    flow. Can be used again in the fall after the honey flow.
    3. Put 4 ounces of granulated sugar per deep hive box into a blender on low speed in
    order to make your own powdered sugar. The powdered sugar that you buy in the
    stores contains corn starch which the bees cannot digest. Place the 4 ounces of
    home made powdered sugar into a baggie. Use one 4 oz. baggie to a deep box and
    3 ounces per medium box. The next time that you are in your bee yard, dump the
    sugar onto the top of the frames. Use a new paint brush ( must be a foam type ) to
    brush the powder off of the frames onto the bees early in the morning or late in
    the evening 4 times at 10 days apart starting in late August and continuing into
    September. Best to have screen bottom boards for this with a tray underneath to
    catch the powdered sugar dust. Then put the dust in the freezer for 48 hours to
    kill the mites. For a solid bottom board, place a piece of cardboard on to it to
    catch the dust. Then remove the cardboard and put dust in to the freezer for 48
    hours to kill the mites. This is done so that the bees won’t play in the sugar and
    take the mites back into the hive with them.
    4. Use 20-25 drops of Thyme oil in 16 ounces of mineral oil if you use a fogger for
    mite control. Walk by the landing board, hold fogger 6" from the entrance for 8 to
    10 seconds and then move on to the next hive.
    5. A very effective treatment for Varroa mites on artificially sized 5.4 bees and the
    natural 4.9 bees is the wintergreen oil study found at
    www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm
    MUST BE FOLLOWED EXACTLY!!
    SMALL HIVE BEETLE:
    1. Mix 10-12 drops of eucalyptus oil with 1 cup of Crisco shortening. Stir in to
    cup of sugar and make into a small patty. Place patty on a piece of wax paper and
    place on top of the frames. ( use latex or rubber gloves anytime when working
    with eucalyptus oil. )
    2. Dust diatomaceous earth on the ground around your hive instead of using Guard
    Star. Be sure and make a 8-10 foot radius around the hive, watering it into the
    ground or apply before a rain.
    3. Use old cortex boards for traps by cutting them into 3x4 inch rectangles. Hold 6
    of the cortex boards lined up together and cover the open end with Crisco. Turn
    over and spoon in 1/8 to 1/4 inch ( 2 teaspoons full ) of the Boric Acid into the
    other end and seal with the Crisco shortening. Place into hive on the bottom
    board, securing it with staples, or put on top of the frames.
    4. When using the West SHB traps, place 1/8 to 3/16 inches of hydrated lime into a
    clean, dry tray, put the grill on top and place into the hive as if you had oil in it.
    This method is better than using vegetable oil since oil tends to run out or to settle
    in low spots leaving other spots dry. Lime has a higher kill ratio than oil.
    NOSEMA:
    Mix 1 teaspoon of Tea Tree Oil with cup of water. Put into a blender and blend
    on low speed for 4-5 minutes. Put the mixture into a gallon jar of water and shake it
    up. Then pour 1 cup of the afore mentioned mixture into a gallon of sugar water and
    feed this mixture to the bees for a month.
    CHALKBROOD:
    1. Same as above but use 2 teaspoons instead of 1 teaspoon of Tea Tree Oil.
    SPRING STIMULANT:
    1 drop of tea tree oil
    4 drops of lemon grass oil
    cup water
    NOTE: Sugar water is a 1 to 1 ratio in the spring and 2 parts sugar to 1 part water in the
    fall.
    Mix all ingredients in a blender on low for 4-5 minutes and add this mixture to 1
    gallon of sugar water and feed to the bees in the spring.
    BROOD BUILDER:
    1 cup soy flour
    cup sugar
    2-3 tablets of crushed up vitamin C
    cup brewers yeast
    3 drops lemon grass oil
    cup honey ( use only your own honey )
    Mix into a small ball, flatten, put on wax paper and place out in the bee yard
    protected from the weather such as an old bird feeder.
    WE SELL PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE OILS AND OTHER
    ORGANIC COMPOUNDS
    WOLF CREEK APIARIES
    930 HWY 438
    CENTERVILLE, TN. 37033
    931.729.9229 ( PLEASE: Call before coming )
    NOTE:
    All oils must be pharmaceutical grade!! Essential Oils are for perfume purposes
    and not for healing.
    Diatomaceous earth must be of food grade. Caution must be used since it is an eye
    and lung irritant.
    Lime dust may also be an eye, skin and lung irritant.
    NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR
    COLONIES WHEN USING OUR TREATMENTS SINCE WE HAVE
    NO CONTROL OVER APPLICATION OF TREATMENTS.
    Thyme oil, sugar dusting, wintergreen oil, garlic powder, eucoliptis oil, crisco, boric acid, hydrated lime, lemon grass oil, soy flour, vitamin C, brewers yeast....and note the lack of using any kind of emulsifier when using oils in syrup...

    Mix 1 teaspoon of Tea Tree Oil with cup of water. Put into a blender and blend on low speed for 4-5 minutes. Put the mixture into a gallon jar of water and shake it up. Then pour 1 cup of the afore mentioned mixture into a gallon of sugar water and feed this mixture to the bees for a month.
    ...how does the oil not separate from the water? I don't use EO's, but i do know that keeping them from separating from the syrup is important.

    Not much treatment free in any of these procedures.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,064

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    ...how does the oil not separate from the water? I don't use EO's, but i do know that keeping them from separating from the syrup is important.

    You have to emulsify the oil by blending at high speed with syrup. I tried using soy lethicin granules but I think they just absorbed the EO's and the treatment was ineffective.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,679

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    So when you use a blender, the oil does not separate out? The bees get a consistent concentration of EO blended into the syrup? I have a hard time believing that, but I have never done it. My understanding is that the worst thing that can happen is that the oil separates out, floats to the top of the syrup, and is consumed in very high concentration at the "bottom" of the feeder.

    deknow

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    632

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    We have not treated in over 5 years.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ueens-for-sale

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,064

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    The oil will stay emulsified long enough to be consumed but the oils usually make the blender so strong smelling that it is no longer going to make your wife happy. Fatbeeman is where I got the idea and instructions. Johnny, do you attribute your treatment free sucess to your VSH breeding alone or do you use other measures? Looking forward to meeting your queens in a couple months.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,679

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    There are different reasons from wanted "treatment free queens", and what is desirable really depends on your goals.

    I think everyone should be looking for queens that have never been treated with fumidil. I believe some of the current books recommend the opposite. Anyone that is producing queens without using fumidil would fit this qualification.

    Some want to buy untreated queens to head untreated colonies...looking for success on an "individual queen level". The goal here is to buy a good queen, and to buy another good queen when you need another. I have no criticism for this approach...but one should understand what they are or are not doing. For this, Johnnys queens would be perfect. As he has detailed in the VSH breeding thread, he is propagating from new VSH breeders every year, and mating them with a drone population weighted towards last years VSH breeders. His procedure is demonstrated (in his own operation) to work, so whatever a good balance is with VSH genetics, he has shown he is producing it. Note however, that he doesn't expect this population (its VSH traits, its other traits)to persist...he brings in new breeders every year.

    If one is looking for untreated queens as a way to start breeding bees that don't require treatments down the line, I think bees that are selected for survival, production, and temperament without treatments are your best bet.

    deknow
    The perils of benefactors; The blessings of parasites; Blindness blindness and sight -Joni Mitchell 'Shadows and Light'

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Mercer County, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Wolf Creek seems to still be accepting orders:

    "NOTICE: We were hit by an FT2 tornado on Jan. 30. 2013 and have suffered extensive damage to both our home and our property. We are okay, but right now our efforts are focused on getting back to normal. The phones are out and AT&T tells us that they may be so for another week. If you wish to order, send your requests through e-mail and we will answer them as soon as possible. If we are shipping bees to you, please include your full address along with a phone number. Also include about when you will want the bees. When we get back to you, we will have all your information ready. It may be a week or so before we will be up and running, so please be patient."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Wolf Creek does not claim to be treatment free! Notice this quote from their Philosphy Page:

    "We have never used toxic chemicals on our bees. For the last seven years we have used natural oils to strengthen the bees immune system. About that time we switched to the 4.9mm bee and other organic practices"

    Read ALL the info before commenting. I have noticed this to be a big problem on this forum. No offense to anyone. Also as to using a blender to mix oil & water, works perfectly. Will stay mixed w/o seperating for months. Try it for yourself.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    The only ones I know for sure are BWeaver and Michael Bush, but Mike is just one man.

    If you live near me, I sell treatment free queens and nucs and I've been keeping them for almost ten years. I don't ship.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    632

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Vance, I think there are several reasons that we are treatment free. First off is the fact that although we have a lot invested in our equipment we do not depend on bees for a living. If they were to crash this spring we would not loose the farm. This gives us the leeway to experiment if you will with treatment free beekeeping.

    We decided 5 or 6 years ago we would not treat and try hygenic/resistant stock to fight varroa. I think that is a big part of our success. Another is our location. We are stationary beekeepers in an area with little rowcropping, thus a very low pesticide usage. We have good forage with a variety of blooming plants thru the year. Its not uncommen for bees to be bringing in pollen during Christmas.

    With selected genetics, good forage and low stress our bees have been able to survive without treatment. Remove any of these and it probably wouldn't work.

    Deknow's statement made me think of something Richard Adee once said, "Its **** hard to breed from the ones that didn't survive."

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    If one is looking for untreated queens as a way to start breeding bees that don't require treatments down the line, I think bees that are selected for survival, production, and temperament without treatments are your best bet.

    Deknow do you know who sells these?
    https://www.facebook.com/stevesbees99
    Please visit my page, Thanks

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,401

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    We haven't yet gotten around to treating any of our bees, going on 20 plus years now -- I hope we never need to. We raise a few SunKist queens from breeder queens (more each year), open mated in an area saturated with SunKist drones. We also raise and ship queen cells.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sullivan, MO
    Posts
    895

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Clemens View Post
    We haven't yet gotten around to treating any of our bees, going on 20 plus years now -- I hope we never need to. We raise a few SunKist queens from breeder queens (more each year), open mated in an area saturated with SunKist drones. We also raise and ship queen cells.
    Are you going to have much of a supply of the Italian/Carniolian queens? Would you be willing to ship to Missouri? I had 2 last year from russell's that with my limited experience with them (ended up having to sell them to nuc customers) were awesome. Wall to wall, top to bottom brood. I'd like to get a couple of these and see if that experience continued. I have a sunkist and 2 daughter queens from her, but none of them have had a fair shake to show me what they can do. (I kept stealing frames of brood from the mother to try and make daughters and then a god awful drought).

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,336

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    > Does Mike Bush sell Queens?

    I have in the past and planned to last year, but with my speaking schedule, I had no time. I hope to this year, but now I've taken a full time job, so I won't have as much time as I had hoped to spend on it. Keep an eye on my website. There is a page on "queens for sale" and when I have some again, I'll have it updated.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    JACKSON OHIO
    Posts
    486

    Default Re: Treatment Free Queens

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    > Does Mike Bush sell Queens?

    I have in the past and planned to last year, but with my speaking schedule, I had no time. I hope to this year, but now I've taken a full time job, so I won't have as much time as I had hoped to spend on it. Keep an eye on my website. There is a page on "queens for sale" and when I have some again, I'll have it updated.
    I will keep checking I want to be in.

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