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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Ayden,NC,USA
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    42

    Default Looking for extractor

    I saw plans or information for the below DIY extractor online somewhere and copied the picture but did not bookmark the website. Anyone recognize the picture or know where I can find them again.image.jpgimage.jpg
    Last edited by Colby828; 05-29-2014 at 08:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Daleville, AL
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    172

    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Haven't seen that myself, but why not use an old washing machine to do the trick? Would have to sanitize the inside, obviously, but it seems like it would be very easy to attach brackets to hold frames, and it would hold several. Heck, to keep it clean, just buy a new one. Disconnect the pump while extracting, but re-connect it and spray some water inside when done extracting for clean up. Easy peasy!
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Elizabethton, Tn
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    Haven't seen that myself, but why not use an old washing machine to do the trick? Would have to sanitize the inside, obviously, but it seems like it would be very easy to attach brackets to hold frames, and it would hold several. Heck, to keep it clean, just buy a new one. Disconnect the pump while extracting, but re-connect it and spray some water inside when done extracting for clean up. Easy peasy!
    I believe a washing machine only has one spin speed...way too fast for extraction.
    It takes a family to raise a family, it takes a village to really screw that up... Djei5

  4. #4
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    Mar 2014
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by djei5 View Post
    I believe a washing machine only has one spin speed...way too fast for extraction.
    True, but Harbor Freight has router controllers,FTW... http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ter+controller
    Now that tub will spin whatever speed you want!
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  5. #5
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    Apr 2011
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    Elizabethton, Tn
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    True, but Harbor Freight has router controllers,FTW... http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ter+controller
    Now that tub will spin whatever speed you want!
    You can't vary the speed of an a/c motor by varying the voltage. You can vary it a very small amount with a dimmer switch, but the more you vary the hotter the motor will get. It has to do with volts per cycle that you must maintain. You also can't vary the speed by changing the cycles alone. If you have a motor that runs on 120v, 60 hz then the volts per cycle is 2 volts which you still must maintain so you don't burn the motor up. To vary the speed of a/c motors you must change the a/c to d/c and then chop the d/c up to make it look like a/c by way of silicon control rectifiers and inductors by using solid state drives. By maintaining the volts per cycle you can then vary the speed of the motor by changing the frequency. This is why all trendmills have d/c motors (which you can vary) and not a/c motors.
    It takes a family to raise a family, it takes a village to really screw that up... Djei5

  6. #6
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    Apr 2008
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    west point, ms
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    379

    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Yeah what djei5 said.
    Don't think you are on the right road simply because it is a well worn pathway.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by djei5 View Post
    You can't vary the speed of an a/c motor by varying the voltage.
    Well please don't tell that to my router, my dremel, my bench grinder, or my ceiling fans. They seem to think they are running slower when I turn the dials down...
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Daleville, AL
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Also, as a drastic speed reduction would probably be in order (prior to using said router controller), one would simply change the pulley configuration.
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    There is a significant difference in design of universal AC/DC motors found in tools such as drills & routers and the AC induction motors more likely to be found in washing machines. The ceiling fans that I am familiar with achieve multiple speeds via selection of internal wirings. While they all plug into AC house current, variable speed control is more complicated for true AC motors.

    Recycling a DC motor with a built in variable speed control salvaged out of a free/cheap treadmill is a better approach than using a fixed speed AC motor.

    Yes, even DC motors plug into the wall. The difference is that there is included circuitry to convert the AC from the wall into a form of [possibly chopped] DC suitable for the motor.

    I suggest researching the design style of the motor via Googling info found on the motor nameplate before determining whether it is suitable to use with a speed controller.

    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 06-01-2014 at 05:45 AM.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #10
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    Apr 2011
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    Elizabethton, Tn
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    Well please don't tell that to my router, my dremel, my bench grinder, or my ceiling fans. They seem to think they are running slower when I turn the dials down...
    Shaded pole, induction, capacitor start...just because a fan or Dremel has variable speeds does not equate it to a washing machine motor...might want to read Electric motors for Dummies before you hand out advice that could get someone killed or injured.
    It takes a family to raise a family, it takes a village to really screw that up... Djei5

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by djei5 View Post
    Shaded pole, induction, capacitor start...just because a fan or Dremel has variable speeds does not equate it to a washing machine motor...might want to read Electric motors for Dummies before you hand out advice that could get someone killed or injured.
    You are correct, it does not equate them. YOU were the one assuming that a router controller varies speed by reducing voltage, not me. In fact, it is most likely done using heavy duty triacs that delay the phase angle, thereby slowing the motor by the amount of "on" time of a cycle, not by reducing the voltage in the way a resistor would.

    But I'm sure you knew all of that.
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Elizabethton, Tn
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    You are correct, it does not equate them. YOU were the one assuming that a router controller varies speed by reducing voltage, not me. In fact, it is most likely done using heavy duty triacs that delay the phase angle, thereby slowing the motor by the amount of "on" time of a cycle, not by reducing the voltage in the way a resistor would.

    But I'm sure you knew all of that.
    I plainly stated "dimmer" which is a resistor and I didn't assume anything of the sort. A router is an idiotic idea simply for the ability to rip an arm off if someone inadvertently turns it wide open...say a child maybe.

    Of course I'm sure you figure it's worth the risk.
    It takes a family to raise a family, it takes a village to really screw that up... Djei5

  13. #13
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    Mar 2014
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    Daleville, AL
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    I'm not sure where the confusion is, but let's be clear... YOU talked about varying speed with voltage, YOU said dimmer switch, not me. I posted a link to a router controller, which is a solid-state speed controller used to control AC motors using Triacs. I also never mentioned spinning a frame with a router, THAT was your idea as well. (and to be more precise, a dimmer is a variable resistor, not just a resistor)

    As long as you don't exceed the load rating of said controller, you will be fine using it to control the speed of an AC motor. I ALSO said that for gross control, a pulley modification could be used, then one could fine-tune the speed with the POWER controller. All of which is simply an idea, not something I have personally done nor seen done, but it is a viable proposition. One would just need to know a good target speed to arrange the pulleys.

    And since we're picking each other's posts apart, I'd like to point out that my washing machine has 6 spin speeds, not just one. And yes, all 6 would be way too fast to extract honey with. Or maybe they wouldn't. With the right engineering, I might be able to drain a frame in 2.3 seconds (not counting spin-up time)...


    Quote Originally Posted by djei5 View Post
    I plainly stated "dimmer" which is a resistor and I didn't assume anything of the sort. A router is an idiotic idea simply for the ability to rip an arm off if someone inadvertently turns it wide open...say a child maybe.

    Of course I'm sure you figure it's worth the risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    True, but Harbor Freight has router controllers,FTW... http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ter+controller
    Now that tub will spin whatever speed you want!
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    6,182

    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Attempting to control the speed of an AC induction motor by varying the voltage is not a good plan. If you want to vary the speed of such a motor, varying the frequency of the AC is a much better idea.

    However, changing the AC frequency generally involves rectifying the AC to DC and then sending it through an inverter to achieve the desired frequency. With the right inverter system, the frequency can be varied while the AC motor is running, therefore achieving variable speed. These are often referred to as VFD (variable frequency drives).

    The relative expense of inverter VFD drives is one reason why a DC motor is attractive as an affordable alternative.

    More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #15
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    Apr 2011
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    Elizabethton, Tn
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    I'm not sure where the confusion is, but let's be clear... YOU talked about varying speed with voltage, YOU said dimmer switch, not me. I posted a link to a router controller, which is a solid-state speed controller used to control AC motors using Triacs. I also never mentioned spinning a frame with a router, THAT was your idea as well. (and to be more precise, a dimmer is a variable resistor, not just a resistor)

    As long as you don't exceed the load rating of said controller, you will be fine using it to control the speed of an AC motor. I ALSO said that for gross control, a pulley modification could be used, then one could fine-tune the speed with the POWER controller. All of which is simply an idea, not something I have personally done nor seen done, but it is a viable proposition. One would just need to know a good target speed to arrange the pulleys.

    And since we're picking each other's posts apart, I'd like to point out that my washing machine has 6 spin speeds, not just one. And yes, all 6 would be way too fast to extract honey with. Or maybe they wouldn't. With the right engineering, I might be able to drain a frame in 2.3 seconds (not counting spin-up time)...
    Go for it Goober!
    It takes a family to raise a family, it takes a village to really screw that up... Djei5

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Daleville, AL
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by djei5 View Post
    Go for it Goober!
    I reckon I'll just ignore your name calling, considering you are the one who is having issues understanding English in this thread. Good day to you.
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Hampstead, NC USA
    Posts
    608

    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    Haven't seen that myself, but why not use an old washing machine to do the trick? Would have to sanitize the inside, obviously, but it seems like it would be very easy to attach brackets to hold frames, and it would hold several. Heck, to keep it clean, just buy a new one. Disconnect the pump while extracting, but re-connect it and spray some water inside when done extracting for clean up. Easy peasy!
    Lesson #1 in beekeeping is:

    "Never try to adapt a washing machine for use as a honey extractor. One may, however, purchase a honey extractor and use it for a washing machine."

    You think I'm kidding? Look it up. First rule. See? I told you so.

    Seriously though. This is just a bad idea/waste of time/waste of money/bad idea. Ooops! I said that twice-sorry.
    By the time the dust settles an purpose built extractor is a good investment. Just look at some of my previous posts and you will see that I am a major fan of building things and I've done a lot of it myself. Many successes but even more failures and temper tantrums. I have a Maxant 20-frame I purchased after toying with making my own. Luckily I never got to the prototype stage because when I become committed to an idea......well.......I sometimes think I should just be committed.
    Good luck with whatever decision you make.
    Hey! New idea! Just take the frames to the laundramat. Check it out and if it doesn't work well so what.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Daleville, AL
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    LOL, good idea.... you got me to thinking. Instead of using the washing machine, I will use the dryers! They sping slower, the heat will help the honey extract faster.... it's a win/win!!

    But to get back on topic for the OP, has anyone seen any decent plans like he's searching for?
    Three swarms, one queen added to brood from each of two purchased nucs (in deeps) for a total of 6 hives

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Looking for extractor

    The OP is actually looking for the website from which he copied the drawings shown in post #1.

    I don't know where he found those drawings, however, Beesource offers plans for two different extractors in the Build-It-Yourself section:
    http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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