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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    Actually couple of questions
    1. On "average" if fed well and good weather (and a blessing from the bee gods) how long for a 10 frame deep hive fill up or need a second brood box starting from a package?
    2. Any advantages to starting a package in a 5 frame deep compared to a 10 frame?
    3. On average how much sugar pollen patty's am I looking at going through this first season per hive from spring til bedding them down for winter?
    4 Any advantages to running hives in 5 frame deeps as opposed to 8 frame mediums if and when weight lifting is a concern?

    I do realize that there is going to be differences between geographical areas and care taking theology's and a all advice is welcome and encouraged. I also realize that some of the questions raise age old debates on the merits of each idea. I want to really understand that for myself and have an idea of what I am going to encounter when I get my bees in April 20. thanks.
    Rick Kumer

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ankeny, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    521

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    I added a second brood box about 40 days after putting my packages in 10 frame deeps.

    I added a honey super about July 15th.

    I kept a Mann Lake top feeder and pollen pattie on them from the day I hived them until I put the super on. I would guess that I used 4-5 patties per hive up to that point.

    My bees are kept about 80 miles west of you.

    Hope you have good luck this year!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    Thank you that was a great help, Kind of gives me an idea on the timing and costs, any idea on the how much suger a hive will use just an idea on what to expect. Thanks
    Rick Kumer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ankeny, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    521

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    Some weeks the bees would go through 16 lbs. per hive. I buy sugar whenever it's on sale under $1.80 per 4 lb bag. Right now I have 200 lbs on hand for Spring.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    A package will take 30-40 days here to fill the first deep, sometimes more if you don't feed enough.

    Plan on at least two pounds of pollen supplement and about 60 lbs of sugar. I recommend a hivetop feeder, don't bother with a Boardman that fits into the front of the hive, the bees cannot get syrup out of it fast enough and they encourage robbing if they don't seal well.

    Depending on your honey flow and the timing, you may also need to feed in the fall, especially if you get a Southern queen -- at least the ones we've had don't shut down brood rearing very quickly in response to a dearth, and they can eat all their stores by fall.

    If you can afford it, I recommend two hives rather than one -- this can save a hive if you lose a queen since you would be able to take a frame of brood and eggs from the other hive if needed.

    Peter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    Quote Originally Posted by psfred View Post
    If you can afford it, I recommend two hives rather than one -- this can save a hive if you lose a queen since you would be able to take a frame of brood and eggs from the other hive if needed.

    Peter
    I will be starting with 2-3 packages from Phil Ebert
    Rick Kumer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    3,515

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    If you run deep boxes, before you build one, run the ends thru the table saw in such a manner that they cut a kerf in the middle exactly as deep as the frame rest, turn it around and run it back thru and I bet you were off a fraction and will end up with a wide enough channel for a 1/8" of tempered masonite cut to fit the assembled box.

    Rip 4ea 3/8" strips off a 1X? 20" long. One is nailed or stapled directly under the middle channels for the masonite divider and the other two on the sides. Cut and fill in the end gaps but leave a one inch opening for an entrance on opposite ends. Your center masonite wall should stick up above the top by at least 1/8 but by just less than the thickness of the flat cut pywood inner covers and rest on the flat plywood bottom of the double nuc you have just built.

    Then I put a cover over that. The bees share heat which is the single most important factor in a package or nuc building up and the reason to not use SBB's until warm weather or not at all in cooler parts of the country. They can only raise as many bees as the cells they can cover and heat. By limiting the space they have to heat and sharing that warmth, they will be able to build up faster.

    If you are drawing foundation, the bees will usually cluster in the middle closest to the heat on the other side. After the bees have three frames drawn, move the outside frame into the center wall so it will get drawn. When the bees are starting to work the outside fifth frame, move it to the inside position. After the bees are starting to build white comb on the top bars, move them into their own full size hivebody.

    Reduce your entrance to an inch wide in the middle. Slowly enlarge it when bees appear like they have a terminal traffic jam at the entrance. Keep that heat in! I would cut two pieces of 1 1/2"styrofoam that are (I believe off the top of my head) 14 3/8" long and 9 7/8" high to take the place of a frame on each end reducing space to hat and acting as insulation. When the bees start working on the 1 and 8 position frames and chewing up the styrofoam, remove it and replace it with frames. When drawing foundation, always push the frames tight together. When the new, now 1 and ten frames are being drawn, rotate them into the center of the brood nest with a drawn hopefully sealed frame of brood between them. By this time of the season it will be warm enough to do that.

    When bees are putting a lot of white wax on top bars, it is time to put on the second box. Put foundation tight together and move the outer to the center to get all frames drawn before spacing. This works best for me, I offer it for your consideration. Good luck.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Brown County, IN
    Posts
    2,034

    Default Re: Starting a new hives,Questions Expectations goods/bads

    Quote Originally Posted by weldingfreak6010
    1. On "average" .. how long for a 10 frame deep hive fill up or need a second brood box starting from a package?
    4 to 6 weeks.
    2. Any advantages to starting a package in a 5 frame deep compared to a 10 frame?
    Someone might argue that the smaller space offers some advantages, but even if true, I don't believe it's significant.

    3. On average how much sugar pollen patty's
    This one's really dependent on location, nectar flows and weather. Maybe 30-40 lbs of sugar. As for pollen patties, I've never used them.

    4 Any advantages to running hives in 5 frame deeps as opposed to 8 frame mediums if and when weight lifting is a concern?
    Seems like a stack of 5-frame boxes would get quickly become unwieldly. As for lifting, we have a woman in our local club who says it's far simpler for her to manage twenty frames in two deeps than 30 (or even 24) frames in 3 mediums. She doesn't lift full boxes, she takes an empty box with her and transfers frames.

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