Flooding with drones

**jayoung21** · 02-05-2013, 10:42 AM

This has probably been asked before but could one take a hive that has something desireable that can be traced such as the cordovan trait, remove the queen and have a laying worker hive produce tons of cordovan drones? I understand the queen would have to have cordovan daughter which would probably mean an AI breeder queen from cordovan drones. but is this possible/practicle?

**jrbbees** · 02-05-2013, 12:04 PM

Possible? Yes. Practical? No. The laying worker would produce drones in normal worker size cells. They would be smaller than a normal drone. They would not be able to compete in the mating flight so it would prove fruitless as you would be preventing the trates from being passed on by the queens normal drones.

Read about breeding programs and setting up drone colonies. Also read about distance the drone hives need to be from the queen mating hives. Study your landscape for where the DCA's would locate.

**jayoung21** · 02-05-2013, 01:37 PM

i didnt figure it would be beneficial, i was just kinda throwing something out there. I do know about drone colonies but i have no idea where a DCA would be in my area. I am the only beekeeper in my immediate area and one of just a handfull in my entire county. So there's not a lot of bees here to start with. Just a bunch of corn and soy fields

**Widdy** · 02-05-2013, 04:27 PM

How about taking a newly hatched queen and cage her up during the time frame she is supposed to do her mating flights? This would only allow her to lay drones. Can add frames of capped brood to keep the hive going.

David

**jayoung21** · 02-05-2013, 06:34 PM

I think she would just take flight when you let her out to start laying the drones. I know some people bank virgins.

**Walt Starr** · 02-05-2013, 08:53 PM

What about inserting several frames of Drone Foundation into colonies with traits you want to saturate the area with drones that have traits you want?

**Whitetail** · 02-12-2013, 08:05 AM

Walt has the only feasible answer. Inserting drone comb will encourage the "desirable hive" to produce lots of healthy drones, without interference. The previous suggestions are not only un-natural,but will likely result in the demise of the hive. Let the queen lay eggs normally and keep the hive population up. If she doesn't, the population will dwindle and the hive will likely perish. Also, I'm gathering that you aren't mating queens. Why would you be concerned with drone production? It costs the hive resources, and for what purpose?

**jayoung21** · 02-12-2013, 02:08 PM

I actually just started mating queens last year. I already know how most people flood with drones using drone comb, it was more of a "i just wanna know" kind of question.

**rweakley** · 02-12-2013, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Whitetail

Walt has the only feasible answer. Inserting drone comb will encourage the "desirable hive" to produce lots of healthy drones, without interference. The previous suggestions are not only un-natural,but will likely result in the demise of the hive. Let the queen lay eggs normally and keep the hive population up. If she doesn't, the population will dwindle and the hive will likely perish. Also, I'm gathering that you aren't mating queens. Why would you be concerned with drone production? It costs the hive resources, and for what purpose?

I don't see laying workers as being unnatural or unproductive in the context of the conversation we are having. Obviously for a production hive laying work sucks. It's not unnatural because it is what naturally occurs in nature if a hive goes queen-less. As for unproductive? Are you telling me nature/God (your choice) has bees make these drones with laying workers and it's a waste? I think it is exactly nature/god's way of retaining the genetics of the hive in the local gene pool. Then again, what do I know I use foundationless natural sized comb. LOL

Rod

**Whitetail** · 02-12-2013, 03:29 PM

Jason, sorry I made assumptions that you weren't mating queens. I do stick with my original answer.

Rod, you do know laying workers are a "last ditch effort" God designed to prolong genetics in a doomed hive. I don't think He would want you to remove a healthy queen from a normal hive to produce inferior tiny drones and kill the hive. We're called to be good stewards.

I do think drone production via purposely made laying workers is a complete waste. You killed a hive to produce tiny drones when many more higher quality could have been produced, while retaining the life, and productivity of your hive.

**jrbbees** · 02-16-2013, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Widdy

How about taking a newly hatched queen and cage her up during the time frame she is supposed to do her mating flights? This would only allow her to lay drones.
David

David, The problem would be the same the drones would be raised in worker size cells resulting is smaller drones that can not compete as well in the breeding flight. So the point is possible but not practical because other drones would end up doing the matings. Also you would then be getting the drones from an 'un-evelauated' queen if they did mate and you just wasted what could be a good queen.