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Tests Show Most Store Honey Isn’t Honey

144K views 557 replies 46 participants last post by  John Smith 
#1 ·
I've found this article just recently, and many facts surprised me.

For example:
"•76 percent of samples bought at groceries had all the pollen removed, These were stores like TOP Food, Safeway, Giant Eagle, QFC, Kroger, Metro Market, Harris Teeter, A&P, Stop & Shop and King Soopers.

•100 percent of the honey sampled from drugstores like Walgreens, Rite-Aid and CVS Pharmacy had no pollen.

•77 percent of the honey sampled from big box stores like Costco, Sam’s Club, Walmart, Target and H-E-B had the pollen filtered out.

•100 percent of the honey packaged in the small individual service portions from Smucker, McDonald’s and KFC had the pollen removed. "

From: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/#.UQ1sbh3m1n5


Boris Romanov
 
#495 ·
At the risk of sending this thread down yet another rabbit hole and sending it onward another 500 posts (maybe I should just start a new thread), I'm interested in this aspect of it:

... organic honey from my beehives ... -cerezha
I've read through the standards for certification, and I'm finally in a position to run hives on land that could likely qualify (at least as I read the standards), but I'd like to know how the certification process actually goes. Would you be willing to provide some details? How often do you have to submit records and samples for testing? What sorts of things would you advise for someone starting into the process?
 
#499 ·
... I've read through the standards for certification
"... organic honey from my beehives ... -cerezha "

Kieck, you misrepresent my statement. I stated that I CALL my honey "100 and 2%" organic. In my case, "organic" is referred to "organic matter" and have nothing to do to "organic" products in the market. It is sort of the joke on the usage the word "organic" - in fact, my honey contains 2% of additional organic matter (bee parts, wax, mud etc). I would never claim that any honey is organic in the sense how it is used on the market (organic milk etc).
 
#496 ·
Good reply! I actually started a new thread on this subject yesterday, and was quickly informed of the existence of this one. In embarrassment, I asked the mod to delete my thread, and went to this one, hoping to get the answers I'd wanted from the one I started. Unfortunately, there was a lot more heat than light. Some useful stuff mingled in here and there, but as someone pointed out, online discussions are not at all like face-to-face ones. Offense is often taken where none was intended, at least in the first exchanges.

max2: is Australia one of the countries that require honey to have pollen?

Beregondo: No politics intended, I swear. You said, if I understood you correctly, that the government shouldn't interfere with the honey market, and I offered an example of interference that I thought acceptable.
 
#501 ·
... and went to this one, hoping to get the answers I'd wanted from the one I started. Unfortunately, there was a lot more heat than light... Offense is often taken where none was intended, at least in the first exchanges...
Well, welcome! This is really good place to ask a question. It is sometime not good place to receive friendly knowledgeable answer. In the best case, you may receive three answers: for, against and that both above are wrong... in the worse case, you will be a subject of "bulling" by "big boys"... it is sometime rough place... but, I have to admit - many people here are very nice, knowledgeable and sincerely trying to help - I deeply respect this part of the beesource.
 
#497 ·
max2: is Australia one of the countries that require honey to have pollen?

I tried to check but could not find an actual description.

We sell honey ( we only have about 15 hives and produce about 2000 kg a year) from home, at farmers and other markets and onr super market.
At stall we display educational material showing how WE produce honey and people can taste our honey. it works for us.
The super market sells processors honey as well as honey from a number of beekeepers. They buy quite a lot of honey from us. Our honey has moved from the botton shelf up. We have a simple but attractive label and mostly depend on repeat sales.
 
#500 ·
.... We sell honey ( we only have about 15 hives and produce about 2000 kg a year) from home...
Very impressive, 133 kilos (~270 lb) per hive per year! In US, I believe, the average is 45-60 lb, which is roughly 23-30 kilos. If it is true, it just tells me that US beekeeping practices are not so efficient and may be it is time to learn from others?
 
#505 ·
Originally Posted by Kieck
Wait. Hold on a minute. You eat ketchup, Boris? You worry about pollen counts and preservation of enzymes and possible contamination with HFCS in the honey ......
I have to admit that I also eat ketchup... and sometime other bad stuff... fries! The rationale is that because I have relatively healthy life-style AND eat raw, whole, 102% local honey - I create sort of "protection" for not so healthy stuff. I feel, I could eat ketchup from time-to-time without much harm to my body. I used to eat sugar - not anymore - honey, honey, honey... In my opinion, the benefits of the whole honey with all enzymes AND pollen in it compensate for ketchup and other stuff.
 
#506 ·
It is sort of the joke on the usage the word "organic"... -cerezha
Sorry, Sergey. I thought maybe you were one of that extremely rare breed who had gone through the organic certification process. I hoped I might get a bit of the details on how the certification process works.

Ironic that I made such a mistake in a thread concerning labeling/mislabeling/incomplete labeling/overuse of generic terms in labeling, I guess.

I have to admit that I also eat ketchup... -cerezha
Make no mistake, I eat ketchup, too. And any number of other foods, processed and otherwise. But I'm not making public statements blasting businesses and individuals who produce and pack those foods. I tend to eat a wide range of things, and, I think, mostly in moderation.

I doubt that honey is a general health elixir or a panacea. As far as I know, roughly 80 percent of honey is sugars. Add another 17 percent for water, and sugars+water=~97%.
 
#519 ·
.... I eat ketchup, too. And any number of other foods, processed and otherwise. But I'm not making public statements blasting businesses and individuals who produce and pack those foods....
I do not see any problem when somebody exhibit concerns regarding the quality of the product. I was not aware that honey minus some ingredients is equal "honey". The situation in packaging business was very educational to me. If this thread would not exist, I would not know WHAT fellow beekeepers called "honey". I feel, this thread made it very clear who is who in this battle and smart consumers will made their decisions partially based on this thread, which is searchable via Internet and available to everyone.
 
#508 ·
It does allow that if you don't know the nectar source, you can call it "wildflower honey"...
...when you buy a jar of honey at a retail store that says Pure Clover Honey, it should be pure clover honey.Just because the honey has a light color the producer of that honey should be made to back up that claim.
Seen honey on the shelf from a local producer the other day, in clear jars, who was selling clover creamed honey, and wild flower creamed honey. Both honeys were the same white honey colour. It would pass for maybe canola honey, but not wild flower honey. Wild flower honey typically is dark from around here.
But many years ago I did not see "unknown" Honey in my local stores.
And a truthful solution is very simple. For example, ... honey labeled as Wild Flower Honey.
The idea expressed in some of the posts in this thread that honey from undetermined floral sources should be labeled "wildflower honey" has been nagging at the back of my mind for a bit. I see this as really rendering the modifier "wildflower" meaningless. If "wildflower honey" could come from any undetermined floral source, how is the term any more accurate or truthful in labeling than simply calling it "honey?"
 
#510 ·
Good point.Well, the term multi-floral could be used. In some European countries, specially those that have Latin at the root of their language, honey that comes from many, or a multitude of floral sources are labeled MultiFloral. France is one of those countries...Also Italy....Look up the word multi as a prefix in the English language. Or, the term poly (Greek: many, much; too many, too much, excessive; often used as a prefix) is used to designate honey from multiple floral sources in some places. Romania, which also has Latin as the base of its language, but also uses a lot of prefixes from Greek, uses the term PolyFloral Honey.
 
#512 ·
Fine by me:)
So, if someone does try to offer single source floral honey ( which for sure cannot be always 100% uni/single-source but could be close enough)...just call it honey?

OK, why don't they?

Orange Blossom Honey...Carrot Blossom Honey...Blueberry Honey...Blackberry Honey... and on and on for all the varieties so intensely marketed out there. They are all honey no doubt. But clearly, they look different, taste different...are different. Or not?
 
#516 ·
However, I expect they get a premium price for varietal honeys that appeal to certain portions of the market, which would encourage identification if and when possible.
Sure they do. Variety is great. Since we are communicating through words and signs and symbols...you would have to say/write something to differentiate all that variety -of honey in this case- that exists and it is marketed out there.
Labeling, in a broad way...makes sense. People like to believe that if it says one thing on the label, it must be true...It used to be in this country, where one's word was enough. Trust is a very fine thing...in very limited supply nowadays.
Sadly, in many circumstances...one's word...written or not...has become an illusion. A fake... Of course none of us here would fake it...from the honey we sell...to what we say on the labels on those beautiful jars. Of course not.

But since US is consuming approx 400 mil lbs...but only produces 150 mil lbs...there lies a great opportunity...and why not...a great temptation.

It's not just with honey...look at the food in general...horse meat or donkey meat anyone? Nothing wrong with either one...as long as the label will call it what it is.

And like you said in a previous post about maple syrup...If you read on the label that it was maple syrup, and you liked it, you never assumed it was not maple syrup...because the label said so. And it should ALWAYS be like that. Sadly it is not the case.

Deception, misdirection, misinformation, disinformation and fraud...is something we did not invent today...it has been out there forever.

Get informed as the saying goes...Right?

But here we are, beekeepers, and after +500 posts, still have a hard time agreeing on what honey is or what is not. USDA, FDA, EU-Codex...all kinds of definitions, all kinds of descriptions...sure enough.
Get informed. Yeah...Good luck on that.
 
#515 ·
Sure. To my way of thinking, honey packers can use labeling to differentiate their product from the rest of the market. As long as what you use to describe it is accurate, I don't see any harm in it.

I might leave off the "pollen" in that list. Honey is not made from pollen. And "local" is relative. If you ship a case of honey 200 miles, is it still "local?" I'd opt for putting the location where the honey was collected on the label instead. Let the consumers determine if it's "local" to them. But those are just my biases.
 
#517 ·
.... Honey is not made from pollen. ....
Honey made mainly from nectar on the bee-kitchen hidden in the beehive. You DO NOT know what else was added to initial nectar to convert it into the honey. Since girls "kitchen" apparently quite messy and girls did not wash their legs when work honeycomb - pollen unavoidably get into the honey purposely or by accident. It is stupid to repeat again and again that pollen is not integral PART of the honey. It is you, who publish here UN standard - it includes pollen in the honey. Healthy value of the whole raw honey is in the pollen, proteins, beneficial chemicals and other micro-elements, which together constitute may be 1% of the honey content. But, these "elements" made honey different from syrup.
 
#521 ·
You DO NOT know what else was added to initial nectar to convert it into the honey. -cerezha
Honey is carbohydrates (sugars) collected, modified and stored by bees. Pollen is a protein source for bees. I've seen bees make honey from honeydew. No pollen was needed in that to make it into honey (I guess if you exclude honeydew honey from your definition of "honey," this line of reasoning becomes meaningless). Therefore, I do not consider pollen to be essential for the production of honey.

Stating that honey is made from "nectar and pollen" implies that pollen is necessary in the modifications of collected sugars to make honey. If you wish to go that level of detail, why not state, "made from nectar, pollen and ash?"

Sure, let's call all American cars just a "car", no brand names, no make etc. -cerezha
I'm sorry. You lost me on this one. Are you agreeing that labeling all undetermined honeys as "wildflower honey" is just as much a failure to label them truthfully as simply labeling them "honey?" Or are you suggesting that all beekeepers be required to submit samples of honey for pollen analysis before selling any so that it can be labeled accurately? Or are you saying that consumers are refusing to buy products only labeled as "honey?"
 
#523 · (Edited)
Honey is carbohydrates (sugars) collected, modified and stored by bees. Pollen is a protein source for bees. I've seen bees make honey from honeydew. No pollen was needed in that to make it into honey (I guess if you exclude honeydew honey from your definition of "honey," this line of reasoning becomes meaningless). Therefore, I do not consider pollen to be essential for the production of honey...
Honeydew contain the pollen mainly from wind-pollinating plants. Surprise: it has more pollen grains from wind-pollinating plants than from nectar producers. Total amount of insoluble matter in honeydew is lower than in whole honey, which is expected. From this prospective, honeydew to me has less health benefit than ordinary raw whole honey. In my personal opinion, honeydew needs to be called "honeydew", not "honey". Since, it is partially result of excretion by "animals" (other than bees), it is probably rich in organic matters and microelements - as any animal excretion. You need to be more careful and do not manipulate the words - I stated that honey naturally contains pollen and honey with pollen provides some health benefits. I did not state that honey is made from the pollen - do you see a difference? Such manipulations, in social networks have specific name. Do you know the name?
 
#531 ·
....the new fluorescent light "bulbs" are not bulbs at all....they are not bulbous in shape, and to call them "light bulbs" would be to misidentify them to tne public as "bulbs"

Deknow
 
#534 ·
I think that technically speaking, it converts electrical energy into light....it does not "produce" light, but emits light. This action requires more than the device, it needs an entire system in place supplying electrical current....the correct term to describe the light emmission would be energized and deenergized or relaxed.

Deknow
 
#536 ·
I disagree Dean. It actually turns electrical energy into two things heat energy and light energy. A very important distinction I believe. I am confused, though, as to whether this energy is truly electrical current or perhaps processed and transformed electrical energy. ;)
 
#538 ·
whether this energy is truly electrical current or perhaps processed and transformed electrical energy. ;)
We must also concern ourselves with convention. Are we dealing with current flow (positive to negative) or electron flow (negative to positive). These are important issues.....
The debate continues.....NOT
 
#541 ·
I don't think light-emitting devices made many appearances in this thread. A lot of space heaters, maybe.

That's a shame, from my point of view, because the reason I was interested in the subject has to do with my feeling that in the US, the labeling system is not good for beekeepers, because it does not adequately distinguish between imported commodity honey and that which is produced here by conscientious American beekeepers. I'm not saying anything bad about beekeepers in other countries in general. But a lot of, for example, Chinese honey is not the best honey. There ought to be ways that the consumer can tell the difference.

I guess I'll have to start another thread.

Apologies in advance!
 
#543 ·
Dan... did you find anything useful in this thread?

My take on all this is that in the US, the present marketing requirements are not very helpful to beekeepers. Even the biggest beekeeper in the country, Richard Adee, apparently feels that way too, so maybe I'm not wrong. (Though I often am.)
 
#552 · (Edited)
I'm glad that some bad persons and honey-processing companies were caught.

ICE alleges imported honey scam
U.S. individuals, processors charged with evading fees on Chinese product

"Five persons and two domestic honey-processing companies were charged Wednesday in a federal probe targeting a multimillion dollar smuggling operation bringing Chinese-origin honey into the United States.
The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement-led investigation — known as “Project Honeygate” — uncovered what ICE said was the misdeclaration of Chinese-origin honey as other commodities as it was imported into the United States and shipped through other countries to evade anti-dumping duties.
Altogether, the seven defendants are accused of evading duties totaling more than $180 million.
“These businesses intentionally deprived the U.S. government of millions of dollars in unpaid duties,” said ICE Deputy Director Daniel Ragsdale. “Schemes like this result in legitimate importers and the domestic honey-producing industry enduring years of unprofitable operations, with some even being put out of business. We will continue to enforce criminal violations of anti-dumping laws in all industries so American and foreign businesses all play by the same rules.”
The new charges represent the second phase of an ICE investigation that began in June 2011 when an undercover agent assumed the role of the director of procurement at Honey Holding I Ltd., which by then was cooperating with the investigation. Honey Holding, doing business as Honey Solutions of Baytown, Texas, and Groeb Farms Inc., of Onsted, Mich. — two of the nation’s largest honey suppliers — have both entered into deferred prosecution agreements with the government.
Honey Holding agreed to pay $1 million and Groeb Farms agreed to pay $2 million in fines. Both companies have also agreed to implement corporate compliance programs as part of their respective agreements.

Also charged were three honey brokers, the former director of sales for Honey Holding, and the president of Premium Food Sales Inc., a broker and distributor of raw and processed honey in Bradford, Ontario.

In December 2001, the Commerce Department determined that Chinese-origin honey was being sold in the United States at less than fair market value, and imposed anti-dumping duties. The duties were as high as 221 percent of the declared value, and later were assessed against the entered net weight, currently at $2.63 per net kilogram, in addition to a honey assessment fee of one cent per pound of all honey.

In 2008, federal authorities began investigating allegations involving circumventing anti-dumping duties through illegal imports, including transshipment and mislabeling on the supply side of the honey industry. The investigation resulted in charges against 14 persons, including executives of Alfred L. Wolff GmbH and several affiliated companies of the German food conglomerate. They were charged with allegedly evading approximately $80 million in anti-dumping duties on Chinese-origin honey. Authorities seized and forfeited more than 3,000 drums of honey that illegally entered the United States.
The second phase of the investigation involves allegations of illegal buying, processing and trading of honey that illegally entered the United States on the demand side of the industry. Some of that honey was adulterated with antibiotics not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). None of the charges allege any instances of illness or other public health consequences attributed to consumption of the honey. The investigation is continuing.
“Trade fraud can have significant implications for the U.S. economy and consumers,” said U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Chief Operating Officer Thomas S. Winkowski. “These products take jobs away from American workers and frequently violate U.S. health and safety standards, potentially endangering the public. CBP is committed to fighting these fraudulent actors alongside our government partners.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/20/ice-alleges-imported-honey-scam/

So, in my opinion this thread will be relevant for a long period of time...
 
#554 · (Edited)
Some details, related to my last post # 552

"Founded in the 1940’s as Hignite Packing Company, Honey Holding dba Honey Solutions is one of the largest processors and marketers of industrial honey in the United States. At our primary facility located on six acres just outside of Houston, Texas, Honey Holding provides approximately 22 million #’s (10,000 m.t.) per year of honey coast to coast to America’s premiere bakers and food processors. To insure our customers’ continuity of supply, we complement our domestic Texas & Louisiana honey production with a myriad of foreign sources obtained from both highly respected (!?) international honey traders and directly from overseas beekeepers and their processors. This global sourcing combined with quality products processed to exacting specifications and delivered on company owned trucks & tankers has allowed Honey Holding to successfully service its growing customer base."
http://www.honeylocator.com/locator/profiles/display/honey-holding-i-ltd-dba-honey-solutions/

"Worldwide leadership in honey processing and best-in-class producer of wholesome food ingredients, industrial sweeteners, food service products, and value-added retail products.
Our efforts are focused on food quality, safety, and sustainability while providing the value and service all customers should demand. We serve the U.S. consumer through our supply of pure honey to further manufacturers and directly with Control Label and our Company Brands of Groeb Farms and Miller’s. This is a responsibility we take seriously (!?) The Groeb Farms production facilities operate in strict compliance with risk-based quality control procedures and are certified by BRC, the definitive certifying body for global food safety."
http://www.groebfarms.com/

"In its own press release, DOJ today announced the two former executives of Groeb Farms "purchased Chinese-origin honey for processing" and "engaged in fraudulent practices despite the company's own audits and inspections that raised substantial concerns that the honey was illegally imported." The executives "also provided false information to the company's board of directors, customers and the public...
...Senior executives who were responsible for Groeb Farms' purchasing and mislead (!) the Board of Directors, customers and the public about transshipping are no longer with the company...
...We take full responsibility for and deeply regret any errors that were made in the past regarding the import of honey," said Rolf Richter, the new Groeb Farms CEO..."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/groeb-farms-reaches-agreement-authorities-223800218.html

Reminder: "Honey Holding agreed to pay $1 million and Groeb Farms agreed to pay $2 million in fines.
 
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