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Tests Show Most Store Honey Isn’t Honey

144K views 557 replies 46 participants last post by  John Smith 
#1 ·
I've found this article just recently, and many facts surprised me.

For example:
"•76 percent of samples bought at groceries had all the pollen removed, These were stores like TOP Food, Safeway, Giant Eagle, QFC, Kroger, Metro Market, Harris Teeter, A&P, Stop & Shop and King Soopers.

•100 percent of the honey sampled from drugstores like Walgreens, Rite-Aid and CVS Pharmacy had no pollen.

•77 percent of the honey sampled from big box stores like Costco, Sam’s Club, Walmart, Target and H-E-B had the pollen filtered out.

•100 percent of the honey packaged in the small individual service portions from Smucker, McDonald’s and KFC had the pollen removed. "

From: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/#.UQ1sbh3m1n5


Boris Romanov
 
#73 ·
People I know who buy honey by the barrel identify the variety of honey by color and taste, not by pollen analysis. -sqkcrk
I second that. Doing pollen analyses on honey would eat up any and all profits from that honey pretty quickly, I think.

we found honey on the shelf of a reputable health food store from a local organic farm at $11/lb that had 30% beet sugar. -deknow
I suppose the easy way to determine presence of some of these other sugars is by measuring levels of glucose and fructose, although I will confess that I do not know what sorts of values might indicate differing sorts of sugar syrups.

I am curious to know 1) what, precisely, is "beet sugar," and 2) (assuming it is sucrose refined from sugar beets) how such refined sugar is differentiated from "cane sugar" or other sources of sucrose?
 
#80 ·
How you could do pollen analysis if it is filtered out? Non-sense. -cerezha
I believe sqkcrk is selling honey with pollen in it. That is, I doubt he is filtering out all of the pollen in his honey. The folks that buy his honey buy it based on color and taste. They could analyze the pollen in that honey. But they buy based on color and taste, not pollen analysis.
 
#82 ·
I believe you misunderstand, cerezha. Sqkcrk harvests honey from his hives. He does not filter through filters small enough to remove pollen (jump in and correct me if I'm wrong here, Mark). Most likely, that honey contains pollen. However, that honey is not tested for the presence or absence of pollen. Not only that, the buyers are not testing it for presence or absence of pollen. They like the color of the honey and the taste of the honey, and they buy it.

Have you had buyers pull samples from barrels to analyze the pollen before they purchase from you?
 
#84 ·
Someone stated:

I am aware of no honey standard that requires that there be pollen in honey.

To the best of my knowledge, Florida, and then California, have laws stating that the pollen can not be removed. If it has been removed, it can not be labeled as honey.

There is a case pending in the San Francisco area I believe. It was weakly constructed, and has undergone revisions. Try a google search. Sue Bee is the defendant.

Sugar ratios are not a good test, very easy to fake, just add the right sugars.

Deknow - what test did you use to determine it was beet sugar? I hope not Polarmetrics.

Crazy Roland
 
#87 ·
Yes Kieck, that is so. But I was refering to buyers of barrels too, such as McClure's, a subsidurary of Dutch Gold, and all of the other Packers I have dealt w/ and have knowledge of. None of them ask for a pollen sample, only a honey sample. They check color, taste, and moisture content. I'm sure they test for other things too, but color, taste and moisture content is what they base what they pay on.

I sold 4 buckets of honey on the way to SC last Saturday. My buyer wanted to know if it tasted good and was on the light side of the color spectrum. Before I got to Missouri he called me to see if I would bring him 4 more because it was all gone already. No body mentioned pollen. Anecdotal as that is and as are all of my experiences selling honey I think what I experience has some weight, being as I sell tons of honey. And some here in this discussin sell none. Some of y'all don't even seem to buy any.
 
#122 ·
... No body mentioned pollen. Anecdotal as that is and as are all of my experiences selling honey I think what I experience has some weight, being as I sell tons of honey. And some here in this discussin sell none. Some of y'all don't even seem to buy any.
yes, because, many of "us" are on customer side. Apparently, many wanted to know what they are buying? It is very simple and your arguments are foolish.
 
#90 ·
People are becoming more aware of what they are eating, at least in my neck of the woods. I sell honey from home and the local Farmers Market, most all ask if it is raw (uncooked) honey and if it's local honey. They like coming to the farm because they can see my hives and know it's local and they stock up for winter, because they know if i run out i won't have more till next July or Aug. I've had some get upset when i run out and they come to the house,had some say, well your hives are right down there, can't you go get me some.:lpf: Some people don't understand that there is a big differents in strained honey and filtered honey, heated and filtered honey is a world apart from raw honey.
 
#92 ·
It's a basic tenent of Marketing that one not run down their competition. A rule not always held to. Bt it is basically not a good idea. Tell your own story, sell your own honey. What others do is not your responsibility. Perhaps you should have some knowledge of what they do so you can address questions from customers, but generally speaking you will be better off refering them to the company in question, lest you misspeak and misrepresent.

Mind your own peas and cues.
 
#94 ·
Ian, the way you think is beginning to scare me. So how long will it take the Chinese to start buying American pollen to add to their rice syrup?

Sqkcrk wrote:

It's a basic tenent of Marketing that one not run down their competition.

Let's not forget this one....


Crazy Roland
 
#96 ·
I do not know how much of a problem filtered honey is, Im not completely familiar with packer practices.

But, what I do know is how my packer operates, to which Im a part of. Kinda makes me feel all good and fuzzy inside,

www.beemaid.com

They are moving in the direction of 100% CFIA compliant producers. This honey will be trackable from the store shelf right back to the bee hive. All honey packed , and I think it 15 000 000 lbs or so is produced by Canadian prairie beekeepers.
If consumers really give a dam about purity, tractability and high standards we should pretty much hold the market

But Im not holding my breath
 
#97 ·
They are moving in the direction of 100% CFIA compliant producers. This honey will be trackable from the store shelf right back to the bee hive. All honey packed , and I think it 15 000 000 lbs or so is produced by Canadian prairie beekeepers.
If consumers really give a dam about purity, tractability and high standards we should pretty much hold the market

But Im not holding my breath
What Bee Maid is doing is really admirable Ian. Perhaps I am too pessimistic but I think that the majority of the time a honey purchase is an impulse purchase made in a large supermarket by a hurried, stressed and budget conscious consumer often with a child in tow begging for a $7 box of Fruit Loops. In that 10 second decision making scenario, unfortunately, price trumps all. Someone prove me wrong........please!
 
#98 ·
I think it would depend on what type of supermarket. We have some large "upscale" supermarkets here where the consumers are, or think they are, pretty food savvy. Of course, you have the opposite at the normal (aka affordable) chains that certainly fit Jim's description. Is it possible for you commercial to target this "upscale" demographic outside of farmer's markets and niche health food stores?

I don't yet have a dog in the fight, but that doesn't mean I don't care.
 
#101 ·
Things kind of look like they've gotten out of hand here. As I said, NC honey standard states that honey is still honey even if the pollen is removed, rationale being that the honey has not been adulterated. I do believe, however that NC is looking to change that provision so that honey must contain some pollen. The problem I see with removing pollen and not providing that information to the purchaser is that lots of people (the majority of my honey customers) buy honey for the purpose of easing their allergies. If it's being purchased for its taste, clarity, etc, I don't see the problem here.
 
#102 ·
Here is where I have a problem similar to Sergeys. Where is the PROOF that honey relieves allergy symptoms. If you allow people to fool themselves w/ such thoughts, which may not be true, aren't you doing exactly what others are complaining about? Misleading by mislabeling? Not dispelling a myth to sell your honey.

On the oter hand, if honey does relieve allergy symptoms, why doesn't anyone promote that idea on their label.
 
#113 ·
It doesn't need promotion on the label. At least in this area people know the benefits of honey from allergies to wound healing. They try it and if it doesn't work, they don't continue to use it. My customers who have been buying it from me for 10 years appear to believe that it helps their allergies. Makes perfect sense to me. . .if you're allergic to something and you take that something in small doses, you will eventually build up a resistance (much like the varroa mite and Apistan). That's why one must use local honey. . .to get the local pollens that are causing the sneezing and teary eyes.
 
#116 ·
It doesn't need promotion on the label. At least in this area people know the benefits of honey from allergies to wound healing. They try it and if it doesn't work, they don't continue to use it. My customers who have been buying it from me for 10 years appear to believe that it helps their allergies. Makes perfect sense to me. . .if you're allergic to something and you take that something in small doses, you will eventually build up a resistance (much like the varroa mite and Apistan). That's why one must use local honey. . .to get the local pollens that are causing the sneezing and teary eyes.
Sorry to inform you of thi Tia, but you and your customers are operating under misunderstandings and selfdillusion. Seeing causeand effect where it doesn't exist. For one thing, the pollen you customers may be allergic to does nt exist in the honey you are selling them. The are allergic to windborn pollens, not the kind of pollens collected by bees.
 
#200 ·
Sorry to inform you of thi Tia, but you and your customers are operating under misunderstandings and selfdillusion. Seeing causeand effect where it doesn't exist. For one thing, the pollen you customers may be allergic to does nt exist in the honey you are selling them. The are allergic to windborn pollens, not the kind of pollens collected by bees.
Mark, I don't think I've ever posted a reply in this forum where you didn't tell me I'm wrong. Since you're so sure of the right answers to everything (you must be a Republican) I think I'll just stop posting and learn from your future sage advice.
 
#104 ·
We have a lot of customers who want our local raw honey for allergies. I know of no study that shows this and do not label my honey to relieve allergies. But if they think it works, I am not going to tell them they are wrong and refuse to sell them honey.

I also tell these customers for it to do any good it needs to be local and not from somewhere 1000's of miles away.

Johnny
 
#105 ·
This is something I recently sent to one of our retail accounts regarding honey and allergies:

The idea that "local" honey helps with allergies has never been demonstrated in any kind of controlled study. There is no anecdotal evidecne that I'm aware of that compares "local" honey with raw, unfiltered honey that isn't local. Local milk will provide you with calcium...that is a true statement...but does it provide more/better calcium than non-local milk?

The idea that pollen content of honey changes every 50 miles (or doesn't change within within 50 miles) is not true. The idea that honey from a specific area harvested in the spring or summer contains the pollen that people are allergic to in the fall is not true. The idea that the pollen that people are allergic to is in the honey is overstated at best....there might be some ragweed pollen in the honey because the bees are negatively charged and attract pollen from the air, but the bees are not foraging on ragweed, it is wind pollinated, and therefore doesn't put energy into producing protein rich pollen or nectar to attract pollinators.

We are very careful about not assigning health benefits to honey when we are selling....it is illegal to so. It certainly isn't the retail stores' job to point all of this out to customers, but I would advise caution when dealing with customers in this matter....health claims need to be handled carefully.
 
#135 ·
In the following thread is a photo of my bees collecting ragweed pollen. I think most people dont witness this because it is often cut down. I leave a large patch of ragweed for my bees and they will work it. People claim that my honey helps with allergies, I make NO claims that it will. But I can say that my honey has ragweed pollen in it.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...n-capital-of-the-U-S&highlight=pollen+capital
 
#110 ·
I believe that Mark is correct...this is all old news. The term 'ultrafilteration' means something specific in the food industry...and what was reported in this story was not considered 'ultrafilteration'.

Filtering out pollen is common (and smart) for those that would stand to lose (unsold stock) if the honey crystallized on the shelf.

Of course, crystallized honey doesn't crystallize on the store shelf or in the pantry....

deknow
 
#119 ·
Agree with Mark and Dean for the most part on the pollen issue... Lined up a new outyard today and she was interested in the allergy effect but had the presumption most of it was caused by grasses and I said can't really help you there, although bees may visit ones that actively have anthers, the amount of grass pollen collected is still minimal.
 
#124 ·
For the past 5 yrs. i don't know how many customers at the farmers market tell me that their doctor said they couldn't do anything more for there allergies and that they could try local honey,that some people say it helps them? Well, i have people tell me after eating my raw honey, it's the only thing that has helped them or there children and as long as they can find it they will never buy anything else. So if it's mental or physical who is to say?If the person feels better or feels cured, that's a good thing.:thumbsup:By the way, doctors will tell you that all allergies are not caused by things in the air:rolleyes: The Honey Vs Allergy is becoming like the Global warming fight,we can see it happening.
 
#128 ·
With that reasoning (doctors recommending honey for allergy because some patients self report that it helps them), seems like we should be expecting professional financial advisers to recommend a trip to vegas, and buying scratch tickets as ways out of debt....or ways to finance an empire!

deknow
 
#127 ·
If you are selling honey, how does your price compare to the shelf price of those found on stores shelves? The one w/out pollen. Are you charging a premium for your honey? Or are you selling it for less so you can get rid of it? A statement I often hear.
 
#130 ·
Allergists recommend, if that's the right word, the use of Local Raw Honey because they don't know any better either and it can't hurt. So, if the patient experiences relief, no none loses. People thing and believe all sorts of things which aren't true.
 
#131 ·
yes, because, many of "us" are on customer side. Apparently, many wanted to know what they are buying? -cerezha
O. K., I'll bite. I'm really curious about this, speaking as someone on the "selling" side, who is interested to know a bit more to maybe help marketing. How do you, as the customer, tell how much pollen if any is present in honey when you're out shopping for it?
 
#132 ·
How do you, as the customer, tell how much pollen if any is present in honey when you're out shopping for it?
Well, for that matter, one can build on the same line of questioning...how do you as a customer, tell that the honey you buy is even honey? Or fake honey? By who's definition?
If you buy directly from the beekeeper, his word is the only thing you can go by...If you buy from a store, any store...you can take the clerk's word, or go by what's on the label, or go to whatever/whomever you think or accept as authority... What else you've got?
 
#133 ·
Interesting read guys, I sell a little honey locally and quite frankly it is the best honey that I have tasted in years (the only honey I have tasted in years) and my customers all agree with me on that score. Taste matters with raw honey.
Some of you would like to get the FDA involved with setting standards, I feel that with our foundering free market system GOVT involvment would soon side with big honey and all the small producers would be forced out of the market place, some legislation in VA at one point was targeting small producers so be careful in what you wish for.
About bees not gathering wind blown pollen, I personally have seen bees gathering ragweed pollen so who really knows where the bees do all there shopping.
Johno
 
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