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Tests Show Most Store Honey Isn’t Honey

144K views 557 replies 46 participants last post by  John Smith 
#1 ·
I've found this article just recently, and many facts surprised me.

For example:
"•76 percent of samples bought at groceries had all the pollen removed, These were stores like TOP Food, Safeway, Giant Eagle, QFC, Kroger, Metro Market, Harris Teeter, A&P, Stop & Shop and King Soopers.

•100 percent of the honey sampled from drugstores like Walgreens, Rite-Aid and CVS Pharmacy had no pollen.

•77 percent of the honey sampled from big box stores like Costco, Sam’s Club, Walmart, Target and H-E-B had the pollen filtered out.

•100 percent of the honey packaged in the small individual service portions from Smucker, McDonald’s and KFC had the pollen removed. "

From: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/#.UQ1sbh3m1n5


Boris Romanov
 
#300 ·
300+ posts into a discussion you started about what is and what is not honey isn't too soon to offer a rough definition. It's hard to consider anything short of that a discussion.

deknow
 
#302 ·
Regarding the beauty of raw honey....

At least around here, much of the "local" liquid honey found at farmers markets actually comes from a single migratory operation. Aside from the adulteration in this honey we have reported on several times on beesource, I don't think it tastes very good, and I've never been at a market where anyone was offering tastes of this honey (it requires working with the health dept., and can be a cumbersome process).

I like the taste and texture of crystallized honey. I'm always amazed when I hear about competitive honey showing...either totally liquid, or very small smooth crystals need apply. What a stupid way to judge honey. Bob Brachmann's goldenrod honey crystallizes with the smallest, smoothest crystals you can imagine....the melt as they touch your tounge. Dee's honey usually has a crystal size about that of table sugar....you can put it on a spoon and nibble on it for a half hour.

But the real bueauty of raw honey is its stability. Sugar is the "money" in natures economy. Plants make it, and it is traded up and down the food chain, providing both energy and a currency with which to conduct "the business of nature".

It is metabolically expensive to concentrate sugar. When sugar is concentrated, it becomes a more enticing target for those looking to aquire sugar...like robbing a bank rather than mugging an individual.

Plants, the producers of sugar, use all kinds of techniques to guard their precious stored energy....they produce toxins that are effective against microbes and larger predators....essential oils, acids, etc are produced at great cost to protect the sap and unripe fruit from being eaten by microbes or biger things.

Yet, nectar is freely offered by the plants for anyone that wants to come by and take it...and do a little pollinating in the process. Bees expend the energy to actually remove so much moisture from the nectar, that it doesn't spoil....it is so rich and so rare in nature, that there aren't microbes that are equipped to eat it. Bees are (apparently) the only life on the planet that protects its sugar in this way.....a unique enough solution to a problem that everyone else on the planet has solved a different way, that there is no microbial threat to raw honey....not true of any other raw food or any other accumulation of sugar in nature.

Because it is so concentrated, and because a store of honey is such an inviting target, bees are also equipped to defend it.

There is simply nothing else in nature that is such a high concentration of microbial "food", that microbes don't know what to do with it.

deknow
 
#305 ·
There is not a question that there are differences between comb honey, raw honey, and heated/filtered honey. No one has disputed this in 300 + posts.

You have been, for 300+ posts, arguing about what is or isn't honey....thus far, 300+ posts into this (which you started), no one has any idea what kind of criteria you are using to make this distinction....your contributions are worthless because they are based on something that only exists in your head. Even a Mac vs PC debate has valid criteria for making a judgement as to which is "better".

How Ian's honey is processed has nothing to do with what you think is honey and what you think isn't.

deknow
 
#306 ·
Nice post #302, deknow. Your comments are very eloquent, almost read like poetry. Your passion for the topic comes through nicely.

At the same time, you seem to nicely leave room so that those consumers who prefer a different form don't feel wrong for their preferences. Great salesmanship, I think.
 
#309 ·
Dean is right. Comb, raw and heated/filtered honey are each different. The rest is opinion. In the realm of opinions….no matter how long you argue you cannot sway the other party. It is a useless waste of time. It isn’t a question of right or wrong. It is opinion.
The dialog will go back and forth until someone tires and disengages. And at that time absolutely nothing will have changed. How long will you continue to kick this horse? It has been dead for a couple of hundred posts already.
 
#313 ·
I have often wondered how the pollen get into the honey naturally,

Does the bee ingest the pollen while taking up the nectar or is the pollen accidentally dusted into the honey cells while the bees walk over head,.?
I know the beekeeper has alot to do with the addition of pollen as they extract the honey from the frames.
So, in the context of natural, what % of pollen in the honey would need to be present to qualify as HONEY, as some are suggesting here?
 
#315 ·
Naw, Sergey, I get it. I got it before. What I was attempting to drive home is that even water with other things in it is commonly called "water," and is accepted by most of the public as such.

Water is easy, comparatively. It has a simple chemical structure. Honey, I think, is quite different. Honey that comes off from a legume flow -- such as predominantly clover -- is decidedly different than mixed wildflower honey is different than buckwheat honey is different than honeydew honey (which, by the way, should almost certainly have no pollen naturally in it). All are "honey." All are chemically different. Therefore, "honey" must cover quite a range. The moisture content varies, the floral sources vary, the amounts of pollen if any vary, the pH varies, and none of it might be consistent even within a hive from one day to the next.
 
#320 · (Edited)
Ian - nothing personal.
All brands of liquid processed honey (US or Canada) in my local Superstores are almost EQUAL...


In your post # 238 you stated: “…this whole idea that as soon as honey is sent through a machine it no longer is honey is absolutely ridiculous…”

Nevertheless, I cannot accept this and I would like to object to your statement.

My first argument is the undeniable basic: in general real HONEY (almost all types) HAVE to crystallize sooner or latter. Crystallization of honey is a natural process, which indicates its good quality. And as you know, several factors determine the time it will take honey to crystallize.
In my short video, I tried to show that crystallized HONEY remains solid even after of influences of heat (of course in a limited time)
From the other hand – “honey” from the Supermarkets (processed honey) LOSES ITS CRYSTAL STRUCTURE and therefore (mainly) remains liquid for many years without Crystallization!

My second argument.
For me HONEY is a remedy/medicine, but not just a sweetener, therefore I asked you to describe in details a process of packaging of any Canadian HONEY. It will help me to show that product you mentioned previously is not HONEY, but PROCESSED HONEY.
I tasted many brands of Processed Honey from my local Supermarkets, therefore I can explain you Why packers cannot call/label Processed/heated honey as Honey (view from the Medicine) based on the official studies.

So, if you wish – please find some details about your honey Processing procedure (temperature, time and filtration) and I will give you more explanation.

Boris Romanov
 
#324 · (Edited)
This question is for Mark ONLY.

What have you done personally to avoid statements similar to this:
"“I have learned from Dr. Mercola’s book is that there are bee farms that produce 2/3 of the annual honey production in North America by force feeding their bees high fructose corn syrup or other sugars, and keeping them under 24-hour hive lighting so that they will produce honey year round (the remaining 1/3 of honey produced in N.A. is pure honey). These tactics result in the bees producing a product that is only partially real honey; the other portion of the “honey” is high fructose corn syrup!”
http://www.fearlessfatloss.com/book...e-corn-syrup-and-honey-a-sneaky-relationship/

Who has to worry about beekeeping industry's reputation among consumers?
 
#327 ·
This question is for Mark ONLY.

What you personally did to avoid statements similar to this:
"“I have learned from Dr. Mercola’s book is that there are bee farms that produce 2/3 of the annual honey production in North America by force feeding their bees high fructose corn syrup or other sugars, and keeping them under 24-hour hive lighting so that they will produce honey year round (the remaining 1/3 of honey produced in N.A. is pure honey). These tactics result in the bees producing a product that is only partially real honey; the other portion of the “honey” is high fructose corn syrup!”
http://www.fearlessfatloss.com/book...e-corn-syrup-and-honey-a-sneaky-relationship/

Who has to worry about beekeeping industry's reputation among consumers?
When I worked on Dairy Farms I some times went barefoot, but usually I wore rubber boots. I thinki you should do the same Boris. Dr. Mercola is full of something and it isn't honey. It comes out of male cattle.

I would like to see Dr. Mercola's data and evidence. There is no one I know, including people w/ thousands of beehives, who does what is described in that paragraph. None of them could afford to "keep[] them under 24-hour hive lighting". How would doing so effect the production of honey anyway? I didn't know that light was necassary when bees process nectar into honey. That would be new information for me, if it is so.
 
#330 ·
1. Dr. Mercola is ignorant and spreads ignorance....in order to make a profit....and this isn't even Dr. Mercola, this is a website for someone selling a "get skinny and happy quickly and easily" program....I always get my honey analysis from a certified F.A.T. coach
From the same page you quoted "statements" from:
So how do you know if you’re buying honey that contains HFCS if it’s not even listed on the label? Well, unless it states that it is raw, natural, 100% certified organic honey, then you’ve got HFCS in that bottle sitting in your cupboard.
and
You can also tell if you have pure, raw honey by whether it burns at 140 degrees. If it burns, it’s not real honey.
Both statements are pure, ignorant BS.
I don't avoid these statements, I look at them closely and evaluate them.
2. I've never heard of the 24 hour hive lighting (I have heard of nucs being made up indoors with red lighting)
3. The other stuff (HFCS) happens...it's been discussed on this forum more than once, and more than by me...it is a real problem. But I know from having tested honey from a variety of sources, that beekeepers who are really conscientious about how and when they feed don't get feed in the honey. Heating and filtering honey doesn't turn it into HFCS. But from the same tests, I can tell you that "beekeeper honey" seems to be often bought in by the beekeeper from larger operations, and that it seems that honey the larger operation doesn't want to sell under their own name is sometimes sold to the small beekeeper to sell as their own, where it will never be tested. I see this as a big problem, but it has nothing to do with how properly produced honey is processed.

deknow
 
#331 ·
Boris, do you pass Dr. Mercola's statements printed out as fact sheets to your customers? I hope not.

Dean,
yes, adulterated honey is a problem which should be dealt w/ to the highest degree of the Law. I hope you have taken samples to MA Dept. of Ag. NY State Apiculturalist Paul Cappy gathered 80 samples of jars of honey from store shelves across the State of NY. Those 80 jars of honey were tested for adulteration and none were found to be adulterated. I am not putting this up as opposed to your statements. I just thought it aught to be known too.
 
#346 ·
let talk about garden fresh carrots now . . .
By special request, how about carrot honey .... :lookout:


Carrot honey produced by a local farmer who grows carrots for their seeds, not their roots. He sells the seeds, and before the flower matures, bees gather the pollen from the carrot flowers and make this unique honey.

Linked from this blog:
http://pastryprose.blogspot.com/2012/01/portland-farmers-market-winter.html

No information available as to how quickly it crystallizes. :D
 
#467 ·
...i wonder how often processed sugar gets into honey via hummingbird feeders or other beeyards.
It's a drop in the ocean in comparison with some "beekeeping" practices similar to this:

"A pump equipped tanker delivers over 40,000 pounds of syrup to our farm. Three 1250 imperial gallon tanks hold the syrup until needed. Syrup keeps well for a month or more. After that, slow fermentation is possible in warm weather. In cold weather, over time some sugar will precipitate out onto the bottom. An ordinary honey pump is adequate to fill our truck tanks for daily use."
From: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/syrup/feed.htm
 
#354 ·
Boris, you should maybe go into comedy. Honey is defined by legal definitions, not anyone's opinion. We can all discuss viewpoints, but it is a court of law that has the only say. You have failed to provide ANY statutes and ANY lab results that show that ANY honey found by you was not honey. You have not even provided any court cases that have found "funny honey" for sale.

I really feel sorry for you.

Crazy Roland
 
#380 · (Edited)
You have failed to provide ANY statutes and ANY lab results that show that ANY honey found by you was not honey...Crazy Roland
Roland - read my post #320 again carefully!
I said:
"My first argument is the undeniable basic (!!!): in general real HONEY (almost all types) HAVE to crystallize sooner or latter. Crystallization of honey is a natural process, which indicates its good quality. And as you know, several factors determine the time it will take honey to crystallize...
From the other hand – “honey” from the Supermarkets (processed honey) LOSES ITS CRYSTAL STRUCTURE and therefore (mainly) remains liquid for many years without Crystallization!"
This is the main difference between HONEY and liquid PROCESSED HONEY."

In addition: "...All honey crystallizes eventually (!); suspended particles (including pollen) and fine air bubbles in honey contribute to faster crystallization.
Filtering pollen and other particles out helps delay crystallization, allowing the honey to remain liquid for a much longer period than honey that has not been filtered." http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/...-is-made-from-nectar-not-pollen/#.UR0Ewx3Whn4

I have no time to teach you beekeeping basics - go to your local library...

I also said: "So, if you (Ian) wish – please find some details about your honey Processing procedure (temperature, time and filtration) and I will give you more explanation."

The second part of my explanation is a simple home test, that shows influences of different type of honey (HONEY and PROCESSED HONEY) on bacteria in MILK.
And result is posted here: https://sites.google.com/site/healthbenefitsofgarlic/_/rsrc/1360852816743/home/honey_test.JPG
But I need detailed information from Ian to be sure that liquid processed honey from my Shop Rite passed a packaging process similar to this: http://www.suebee.com/?q=node/32
or to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDtClXCM1_I

Nevertheless, I still did not get requested details.
But it's up to Ian to provide or not to provide requested details, and I do not want to force him.
 
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