I believe you misunderstand, cerezha. Sqkcrk harvests honey from his hives. He does not filter through filters small enough to remove pollen (jump in and correct me if I'm wrong here, Mark). Most likely, that honey contains pollen. However, that honey is not tested for the presence or absence of pollen. Not only that, the buyers are not testing it for presence or absence of pollen. They like the color of the honey and the taste of the honey, and they buy it.
Have you had buyers pull samples from barrels to analyze the pollen before they purchase from you?
I am aware of no honey standard that requires that there be pollen in honey.
To the best of my knowledge, Florida, and then California, have laws stating that the pollen can not be removed. If it has been removed, it can not be labeled as honey.
There is a case pending in the San Francisco area I believe. It was weakly constructed, and has undergone revisions. Try a google search. Sue Bee is the defendant.
Sugar ratios are not a good test, very easy to fake, just add the right sugars.
Deknow - what test did you use to determine it was beet sugar? I hope not Polarmetrics.
But who will restore extracted pollen?
Therefore I think this example does not reflect the core of the problem, that was raised in the article. And in such situation I can give you my counter-example.
As we know in general ( without intervention of beekeepers or somebody else ) honey contains a pollen.
On the other hand, there is a common definition of man: in English, man refers to an adult human male .... "Although men typically have a male reproductive system” (in a normal situation - without intervention of doctors ).
That means a man without a main part of his reproductive system (castrated man) is not a man anymore...
So, "honey" without pollen is not honey anymore, because one natural component was removed forever.
The question is very simple - why they (National Honey Board, ABF an so on) still did not create a comprehensive standard, that simply will force to name modified honey as "Filtered Honey", "Processed Honey", Honey Heated to the Level 1 (2,3...), Sugar/Syrup Honey and so on.
Instead of this they posted brainwashing articles similar to this:
National Honey Board: "Honey is Made from Nectar, Not Pollen"
Influence Industry: U.S. honey industry asks FDA for national purity standard
"...Industry groups and some lawmakers are also pressing the Food and Drug Administration to establish a national "standard of identity" for honey to ensure that products are 100 percent pure, rather than diluted with other sweeteners to cut costs or evade import restrictions...."
Last edited by Boris; 02-07-2013 at 11:23 AM.
Any assumptions about what the vast number of honey consumers across the Nation want or know is not worth a dime w/out widespread real consumer survey information. So saying what honey consumers want or know about what they are buying is purely speculation and foolish.
Yes Kieck, that is so. But I was refering to buyers of barrels too, such as McClure's, a subsidurary of Dutch Gold, and all of the other Packers I have dealt w/ and have knowledge of. None of them ask for a pollen sample, only a honey sample. They check color, taste, and moisture content. I'm sure they test for other things too, but color, taste and moisture content is what they base what they pay on.
I sold 4 buckets of honey on the way to SC last Saturday. My buyer wanted to know if it tasted good and was on the light side of the color spectrum. Before I got to Missouri he called me to see if I would bring him 4 more because it was all gone already. No body mentioned pollen. Anecdotal as that is and as are all of my experiences selling honey I think what I experience has some weight, being as I sell tons of honey. And some here in this discussin sell none. Some of y'all don't even seem to buy any.
People are becoming more aware of what they are eating, at least in my neck of the woods. I sell honey from home and the local Farmers Market, most all ask if it is raw (uncooked) honey and if it's local honey. They like coming to the farm because they can see my hives and know it's local and they stock up for winter, because they know if i run out i won't have more till next July or Aug. I've had some get upset when i run out and they come to the house,had some say, well your hives are right down there, can't you go get me some. Some people don't understand that there is a big differents in strained honey and filtered honey, heated and filtered honey is a world apart from raw honey.
It's a basic tenent of Marketing that one not run down their competition. A rule not always held to. Bt it is basically not a good idea. Tell your own story, sell your own honey. What others do is not your responsibility. Perhaps you should have some knowledge of what they do so you can address questions from customers, but generally speaking you will be better off refering them to the company in question, lest you misspeak and misrepresent.
Mind your own peas and cues.
Now if those honey handlers, who filter their honey to remove unwanted "things" in their honey, would just buy some local clean pollen and mix it in to the honey batch, they would be selling honey again, , . . right?
Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper
Ian, the way you think is beginning to scare me. So how long will it take the Chinese to start buying American pollen to add to their rice syrup?
It's a basic tenent of Marketing that one not run down their competition.
Let's not forget this one....
I do not know how much of a problem filtered honey is, Im not completely familiar with packer practices.
But, what I do know is how my packer operates, to which Im a part of. Kinda makes me feel all good and fuzzy inside,
They are moving in the direction of 100% CFIA compliant producers. This honey will be trackable from the store shelf right back to the bee hive. All honey packed , and I think it 15 000 000 lbs or so is produced by Canadian prairie beekeepers.
If consumers really give a dam about purity, tractability and high standards we should pretty much hold the market
But Im not holding my breath
Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper
"Ve are too soon olt und too late schmart."- A nameless German philosopher
I think it would depend on what type of supermarket. We have some large "upscale" supermarkets here where the consumers are, or think they are, pretty food savvy. Of course, you have the opposite at the normal (aka affordable) chains that certainly fit Jim's description. Is it possible for you commercial to target this "upscale" demographic outside of farmer's markets and niche health food stores?
I don't yet have a dog in the fight, but that doesn't mean I don't care.
1. During an ultrafiltration process tiny particles of wax are also removed.
2. Usually during an ultrafiltration process honey heated to 150(įF) to 170(įF) to more easily pass through the fine filter. In such situation the major downside to ultrafiltration is that it eliminates nutritionally valuable enzymes found in raw honey, such as diastase and invertase.
“Typically enzymes are proteins of complex structure that catalyze a specific chemical reaction. They are sensitive to heat (!!!), visible and UV light and other forms of energy such as microwaves.”
“Heating destroys hydrogen peroxide activity, a natural component of raw, unprocessed honey. Hydrogen peroxide is one of the mayor elements that makes honey a powerful antibacterial agent and healer.”
You can get more details from this book: “The Honey Prescription: The Amazing Power of Honey as Medicine” by Nathaniel Altman (page #35).
In addition you can see two examples from my previous post # 71
So, the Rubicon (the point of no return) is passed during an ultrafiltration process of honey.
"Ingredients of Beeswax:
• Beeswax is a mixture of many chemical compounds
• Essential ingredients (monoesters, diesters, triethers and oxi-ethers) - 70 -75%
• Free fatty acids (carotene, montanin and oleic) - 13 - 15%
• Saturated hydrocarbons - 12 - 17%
• Water - 0,4%
• Carbohydrates (heptacosane and pentacosane)
• Aromatic substances
• Coloring agents
• Organic and mineral substances.
Yellow wax contains the largest amount of vitamin A."
Last edited by Boris; 02-08-2013 at 08:56 AM.
Boris, can you please list for me which Packers ultrafilter their honey? By name please. And sight the source of your information too. Thanks. I'd like to know. And what kind of machinery and handling techniques are they using to do this ultrafiltration.