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  1. #461
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Jasper, Texas, USA
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    136

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Hi Boris.

    You can have your opinion about how honey should be sold. That is totally fine. I wish you the best selling your product your way. You can even lobby to change the laws and standards. All fine.


    The USDA calls my product Honey. The United Sates District Court of Northern California has ruled in September and January that my product is honey. The burden falls on you to change the system. You could get the definition changed. It looks like that has to be done at the federal level. Until then, please understand I have every legal right to call it "honey".

    These legal cases are a hoot to read. Please keep posting any lawsuits that are pending. I've learned a lot. It's nice to catch up on Current news.
    Last edited by ryan; 02-15-2013 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Crazy auto spelling correction.

  2. #462
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,518

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Are you Ian?
    No, he's Mark and he has every right to reply to any post.
    Regards, Barry

  3. #463
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,729

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Ahhhhh... we have a wise one...... Ryan figured it out. It is all about the law. Boris - take note - case closed. If you are still unhappy, do as Ryan suggested, contact you state and federal legislatures, and go harp on them, not us.

    Crazy Roland

  4. #464
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,515

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Here's a link:
    http://druganddevicelaw.blogspot.com...itigation.html

    There are more cases than just the two mentioned above. The end result is not always identical, depending on the state.
    did you see this:
    This blog site is intended to disseminate the Authors’ personal, defense-oriented views of various issues that arise in the context of prescription drug and medical device product liability litigation and related topics. No representation is made about the accuracy of the information, which solely constitutes the Author’s personal view on these issues. The information contained in this blog site is provided only as general information and personal opinions, and blog topics may or may not be updated after being initially posted.
    http://druganddevicelaw.blogspot.com...1_archive.html
    Серёжа, Sergey

  5. #465
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,515

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    I don't think CA is getting any different honey than any other state.

    CA most certainly has honey on the store shelf that has been heated and filtered. Perhaps I don't understand your question.
    I have to admit that you were right - your opinion is supported by a few court decisions on the basis that CA could not implement different rule if FDA have no definition of honey. Personally, to me it is stupidiest thing one could imagine - to prevent local laws, but this just speaks about quality and bias in US law.

    Now, my personal line of defense would be to tell all my friends etc. that based on court decision, CA law does not protect us from fraudulent honey labeling. Thus - honey is not necessary a honey, it may be something else. Be aware!
    Серёжа, Sergey

  6. #466
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,515

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    ...The USDA calls my product Honey. ... You could get the definition changed. It looks like that has to be done at the federal level. Until then, please understand I have every legal right to call it "honey".
    I am not sure, it is true that USDA called your product honey. Based on my reading of the law suits, US courts (4 out of 5) permitted to call your product "honey" because FDA have no definition what is honey. In US, Federal law prevails over local.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  7. #467
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Grahamsville, NY
    Posts
    443

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    ...i wonder how often processed sugar gets into honey via hummingbird feeders or other beeyards.
    It's a drop in the ocean in comparison with some "beekeeping" practices similar to this:

    "A pump equipped tanker delivers over 40,000 pounds of syrup to our farm. Three 1250 imperial gallon tanks hold the syrup until needed. Syrup keeps well for a month or more. After that, slow fermentation is possible in warm weather. In cold weather, over time some sugar will precipitate out onto the bottom. An ordinary honey pump is adequate to fill our truck tanks for daily use."
    From: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/syrup/feed.htm

  8. #468
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    It's a drop in the ocean in comparison with some "beekeeping" practices similar to this:
    I believe you left off a little piece of the article:

    Sugar should never be fed at any time when it is possible that it will be stored in the honey supers and extracted with honey
    ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

  9. #469
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,651

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    It's a drop in the ocean in comparison with some "beekeeping" practices similar to this:

    "A pump equipped tanker delivers over 40,000 pounds of syrup to our farm. Three 1250 imperial gallon tanks hold the syrup until needed. Syrup keeps well for a month or more. After that, slow fermentation is possible in warm weather. In cold weather, over time some sugar will precipitate out onto the bottom. An ordinary honey pump is adequate to fill our truck tanks for daily use."
    From: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/syrup/feed.htm
    This is like discussing Biblical passages, according to some they make quite a bit more when read fully in context. What you quoted is just a snap short of the whole. It isn't called "Feeding Syrup to Honeybees [For Honey Production]".
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  10. #470
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Grahamsville, NY
    Posts
    443

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by hpm08161947 View Post
    I believe you left off a little piece of the article:
    I did not left anything, because I know some standard recommendations from the producers of plastic frames (foundations, Supers-size frames are included)

    As you can see here: http://www.beebehavior.com/pierco_pl...oundations.php
    I like Pierco frames, and especially Deep-size foundations, that I use even for honey production.
    I prefer to use supers for comb honey production only:
    http://www.beebehavior.com/romanov_comb_sections.php

    Nevertheless, I'm against the Piergo's introduction instruction, therefore I posted my NOTE for the visitors of my web site. You can see this note below:

    "NOTE: I'm completely against this recommendation from above mentioned instruction: "We recommend feeding the bees heavily (!!!) with sugar syrup at this time to stimulate comb building."

    Boris Romanov
    Last edited by Boris; 02-17-2013 at 08:56 AM.

  11. #471
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    Jul 2006
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    Grahamsville, NY
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    443

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    This is like discussing Biblical passages...
    Let's be specific.

    Mark, I prefer ketchups with the "No High Fructose Corn Syrup" label...
    Could you show us please the real proof, that a final product with your honey doesn't contain any syrup or syrup's traces.

    P.S. An acceptable proof - a test result from any laboratory that is certified by FDA.
    Last edited by Boris; 02-17-2013 at 08:53 AM.

  12. #472
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,729

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Boris - I am quite like Sqkcrk - similar size(commercial), geography(similar latitude, different longitude), and short of migrating, methodology. Our honey easily passes sugar ratio and ISCRA tests. I am confidant that Sqkcrk's would too.


    Crazy Roland

  13. #473
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    27,651

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Let's be specific.

    Mark, I prefer ketchups with the "No High Fructose Corn Syrup" label...
    Could you show us please the real proof, that a final product with your honey doesn't contain any syrup or syrup's traces.

    P.S. An acceptable proof - a test result from any laboratory that is certified by FDA.
    No, of course not. Who can afford such tests and why would I? Can you do the same for yours? I have nothing to prove about my Honey. The "proof" is in the Account Books and the Bank. Your question is rediculous.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  14. #474
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Wait. Hold on a minute. You eat ketchup, Boris? You worry about pollen counts and preservation of enzymes and possible contamination with HFCS in the honey you buy, and then you're buying that processed olio of ingredients known as "ketchup" that is commonly used to conceal a multitude of sins when it's used as a condiment on other processed foods?

  15. #475
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    27,651

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Actually Kieck, I believe that Boris wrote that he doesn't buy honey. I don't know what his beef is. Maybe he feels the same way about beef that he does about honey. I sure hope that it isn't just honey that he is so radically adiment about. But that's what happens. People get on a jag about one thing and then they smoke and drink and drive fast and all sorts of other things. But, darn it, honey has to be what I say it is or it isn't really honey. Give me a break.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  16. #476
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Maybe so, Mark, but then why worry so much about how honey is labeled? I don't feel deceived by labeling or lack of labeling on products that I don't purchase.

  17. #477
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,729

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    I have plenty of honey I can sell him, with certified lab test, State documentation, and without any trace of miticides. A real deal at one dollar an ounce. Put your money where you mouth is.

    Crazy Roland

  18. #478
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Unsubscribing this Thread from my Subscribed Threads List.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  19. #479
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Grahamsville, NY
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    443

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Roland, please read my post # 471 more carefully, especially this note:

    "P.S. An acceptable proof - a test result from any laboratory that is certified by FDA."
    Last edited by Boris; 02-18-2013 at 07:37 AM.

  20. #480
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Grahamsville, NY
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    443

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    The very specific question was raised by squarepeg

    Ian's reply "...So even if a neighbouring bee yard was robbing a neighbouring yards pail spills, that syrup will be going into the nest, not into the supers" looked very funny to me. It's very interesting to see how bees were trained to do this...

    To reply to squarepeg I posted some additional info in the post# 467

    Mark posted his comments on it voluntarily, therefore I asked him to reply to my post.

    Mark's failure to answer to my post #471 and his capitulation is a type of the answers too...
    Last edited by Boris; 02-18-2013 at 01:24 PM.

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