Tests Show Most Store Honey Isn’t Honey

[sqkcrk]

This question is for everybody except Boris Romanov. What the heck was that video about and what does it have to do w/ this Thread?

[sqkcrk]

It is a complex mixture, which contains soluble part (sugars) and insoluble part (pollen etc). Sugars, soluble minerals etc creates a solution in the water; insoluble matter (pollen etc) is suspended in solution. So, when liquid, it is a solution and suspension at the same time. It is not a gel, by the way, how somebody suggested.

What about creamed honey, would that be a gel?

[deknow]

...I was trying to keep track of which jar had the bean under it

deknow

[Boris]

This question is for Mark ONLY.

What have you done personally to avoid statements similar to this:
"“I have learned from Dr. Mercola’s book is that there are bee farms that produce 2/3 of the annual honey production in North America by force feeding their bees high fructose corn syrup or other sugars, and keeping them under 24-hour hive lighting so that they will produce honey year round (the remaining 1/3 of honey produced in N.A. is pure honey). These tactics result in the bees producing a product that is only partially real honey; the other portion of the “honey” is high fructose corn syrup!”
http://www.fearlessfatloss.com/book-...-relationship/

Who has to worry about beekeeping industry's reputation among consumers?

[sqkcrk]

Did anybody ever think why honey is much less crystallized if stored in the honey comb? I have 2-years honey comb and honey is still liquid in it. Why?

I hope you are not basing an opinion on anecdotal evidence Sergey. Because, just because you have some comb honey which has not crystalized, that does not mean that comb honey does not crystalize. Which you seem to imply. I have some comb honey which is crystalized which I can send you. I can't sell it.

Honey crystalizes in brood combs quite often.

[sqkcrk]

Bravo!

Yeah, whoop-di-do.

I used to lay down and drink water from creeks that emptied into the Anacostia and Potomac Rivers. Maybe that why I am the way I am.

[sqkcrk]

This question is for Mark ONLY.

What you personally did to avoid statements similar to this:
"“I have learned from Dr. Mercola’s book is that there are bee farms that produce 2/3 of the annual honey production in North America by force feeding their bees high fructose corn syrup or other sugars, and keeping them under 24-hour hive lighting so that they will produce honey year round (the remaining 1/3 of honey produced in N.A. is pure honey). These tactics result in the bees producing a product that is only partially real honey; the other portion of the “honey” is high fructose corn syrup!”
http://www.fearlessfatloss.com/book-...-relationship/

Who has to worry about beekeeping industry's reputation among consumers?

When I worked on Dairy Farms I some times went barefoot, but usually I wore rubber boots. I thinki you should do the same Boris. Dr. Mercola is full of something and it isn't honey. It comes out of male cattle.

I would like to see Dr. Mercola's data and evidence. There is no one I know, including people w/ thousands of beehives, who does what is described in that paragraph. None of them could afford to "keep[] them under 24-hour hive lighting". How would doing so effect the production of honey anyway? I didn't know that light was necassary when bees process nectar into honey. That would be new information for me, if it is so.

[jim lyon]

Ok folks after his last post Boris now officially qualifies as a troll in my book. Lets all just disengage. This is all getting a bit bizarre.

[squarepeg]

When I worked on Dairy Farms I some times went barefoot, but usually I wore rubber boots. I thinki you should do the same Boris. Dr. Mercola is full of something and it isn't honey. It comes out of male cattle.

[deknow]

1. Dr. Mercola is ignorant and spreads ignorance....in order to make a profit....and this isn't even Dr. Mercola, this is a website for someone selling a "get skinny and happy quickly and easily" program....I always get my honey analysis from a certified F.A.T. coach
From the same page you quoted "statements" from:

So how do you know if you’re buying honey that contains HFCS if it’s not even listed on the label? Well, unless it states that it is raw, natural, 100% certified organic honey, then you’ve got HFCS in that bottle sitting in your cupboard.

and

You can also tell if you have pure, raw honey by whether it burns at 140 degrees. If it burns, it’s not real honey.

Both statements are pure, ignorant BS.
I don't avoid these statements, I look at them closely and evaluate them.
2. I've never heard of the 24 hour hive lighting (I have heard of nucs being made up indoors with red lighting)
3. The other stuff (HFCS) happens...it's been discussed on this forum more than once, and more than by me...it is a real problem. But I know from having tested honey from a variety of sources, that beekeepers who are really conscientious about how and when they feed don't get feed in the honey. Heating and filtering honey doesn't turn it into HFCS. But from the same tests, I can tell you that "beekeeper honey" seems to be often bought in by the beekeeper from larger operations, and that it seems that honey the larger operation doesn't want to sell under their own name is sometimes sold to the small beekeeper to sell as their own, where it will never be tested. I see this as a big problem, but it has nothing to do with how properly produced honey is processed.

deknow

[sqkcrk]

Boris, do you pass Dr. Mercola's statements printed out as fact sheets to your customers? I hope not.

Dean,
yes, adulterated honey is a problem which should be dealt w/ to the highest degree of the Law. I hope you have taken samples to MA Dept. of Ag. NY State Apiculturalist Paul Cappy gathered 80 samples of jars of honey from store shelves across the State of NY. Those 80 jars of honey were tested for adulteration and none were found to be adulterated. I am not putting this up as opposed to your statements. I just thought it aught to be known too.

[cerezha]

I hope you are not basing an opinion on anecdotal evidence Sergey. Because, just because you have some comb honey which has not crystalized, that does not mean that comb honey does not crystalize. Which you seem to imply. I have some comb honey which is crystalized which I can send you. I can't sell it.

Honey crystalizes in brood combs quite often.

It is interested observation. Anybody else could comment on crystallized honey in the comb? In my hand with limited experience, I do observe that honey are not crystallized in the comb, but the same honey extracted by crush-and-strain method, in fact, do crystallize.

[cerezha]

What about creamed honey, would that be a gel?

I do not think so. Gel is very specific state.

[cerezha]

...It is most unscientific and innaccurate to talk about two foodstuffs (honey and water), and hold one to a lab grade "purity" standard as a chemical compound, and the other to a "how it exists in nature" standard. ...deknow

Yes, exactly! Braaaavo! Could you explain it to Kieck? The whole point was that it does not make sense to compare water with honey. I am glad you got it!

[Ian]

let talk about garden fresh carrots now,

lord will this ever end . . .

[deknow]

It is interested observation. Anybody else could comment on crystallized honey in the comb? In my hand with limited experience, I do observe that honey are not crystallized in the comb, but the same honey extracted by crush-and-strain method, in fact, do crystallize.

...it is largely the air bubbles...perhaps some dust on the outside of the cappings getting into the honey is seeding it as well. Look up heather honey from the UK moors....it crystallizes so fast that it is usually either sold in the comb, or pressed out of the comb.
Honey is a supersaturated solution, even in the comb. The balance of simple sugars, temperature, and the presence of particles (or tiny air bubbles) in the honey influences the speed and size of crystallization....but similar harvests from the same location seem to have similar textures from year to year. Probably agitation influences crystallization as well (I remember that when making rock candy in science class that you were not supposed to tap or move the cooled solution).

deknow

[deknow]

Yes, exactly! Braaaavo! Could you explain it to Kieck? The whole point was that it does not make sense to compare water with honey. I am glad you got it!

I don't agree. It makes no sense to compare water, the reagent grade uncontaminated chemical compound, to honey, the food. I think it's fine to compare "pure water"...fresh drinking water from nature with honey wrt purity. In both cases, you can change some of its character by heating and/or filtering without making it something other than water or honey.

deknow

[deejaycee]

Anybody else could comment on crystallized honey in the comb?

Happens all the time. Just a couple of months ago I put in my first load of honey for the season to our packer, and a box of honey that had been left on the hives for over winter feed was included, and was thoroughly cyrstalised.

And no, we use no supplementary feeds (no sugar or syrup). It's real honey, just left long enough to hit its natural crystalisation timeline.

[deknow]

I have some crystallized comb honey in the pantry (couldn't extract it), I'm gonna go eat some...it's good

deknow

[cerezha]

I don't agree. It makes no sense to compare water, the reagent grade uncontaminated chemical compound, to honey, the food. I think it's fine to compare "pure water"...fresh drinking water from nature with honey wrt purity. In both cases, you can change some of its character by heating and/or filtering without making it something other than water or honey.

deknow

Exactly, yes, "... It makes no sense to compare water, the reagent grade uncontaminated chemical compound, to honey, the food. "

No, "you can not (edited by me, RS) change some of its character by heating and/or filtering without making it something other than water or honey" - even water after heating will taste differently - did you ever try fresh water from the glassier? And then heat it and compare? Entirely different taste. The thing is - you may speak from scientific point of view and than we are talking about H2O or from "consumer" prospective. Both views are legitimate but incompatible when mixed together and semantic is used as a "scientific" argument... that all waters are the same... did you hear about "structured water"? Water is unfortunate example. Do not insist on continuation, use milk instead - much more "beneficial" to your point of view example. Are we going to talk about milk now? or carrots?