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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    125

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    I have just read Tia's remarks and I worry about the level of IQ,s of some of the participants. I for one pointed out the fact that bees feed on ragweed a wind blown pollen,a debate is taking place on this thread and some things can be learned from it. It is unbecoming that someone should try to label a persons position by blaming it on a political ideology,I begin to understand why the gentleman who did some research on FGMO no longer takes part in this forum
    Johno

  2. #202
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Everyone on these forums should keep a couple things in mind:

    First, you might meet some of the people you debate/criticize/dismiss in these threads. Chances are, you will find those people to be far more reasonable than they may come across in this medium, given the limitations of communication in this format. You might find that you actually like some of them if you do meet them. All the members of Beesource that I've met face-to-face have been pleasant, likable people. Bearing that in mind while you type might make your responses a bit more temperate.

    Secondly, the non-verbal components of communication are lost in a forum like this. What you interpret as a harsh response may not have been intended as harsh at all. Try to have a thick skin while reading others' responses, and don't take offense at every difference of opinion.

    Having said that, I did look up the story in the initial post. I also found follow-up news stories from shortly after it appeared (back in 2011). The impression I got from those articles was very different than the general tone in this thread seems to be.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Grahamsville, NY
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    440

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    why cant you accept that statement ?
    Because I think your statement in your post "179 is incorrect.

    The Bee Maid Honey is just a distributor. I think you forgot the Packager - HACCP.

    “Bee Maid Honey is proud that it’s honey processing and packing operations are HACCP recognized by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).”
    http://www.beemaid.com/bulk-ingredient

    Could you please describe us the HACCP’s “honey processing” DETAILS. It will help us to compare a Canadian "honey processing" with an American " honey processing" - for example with the Sioux Honey Association.

    Did you ever try the final product AFTER the HACCP processing?

    Today I’ve visited the Shop Rite Superstore in Monticello, NY and I have more details to show you later my explanation of Why the final product from the BeeMaid is not HONEY any more (in my opinion).

    Boris Romanov

  4. #204
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    5,720

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    The Bee Maid Honey is just a distributor. I think you forgot the Packager - HACCP.

    “Bee Maid Honey is proud that it’s honey processing and packing operations are HACCP recognized by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).”
    Oops, Boris, you seem to be confused. HACCP is not a packager of any kind.

    HACCP is a management system in which food safety is addressed through the analysis and control of biological, chemical, and physical hazards from raw material production, procurement and handling, to manufacturing, distribution and consumption of the finished product.

    More here:
    http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/h...cp/default.htm
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.Ē

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fair Grove,MO,USA
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    1,656

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    deKnow,Here is some food value of Raw Honey, natural sugars,minerals,and vitamins,and even antioxidant properties,it is fat free,and cholesterol free. The minerals, calcium,copper,iron,magnesium,manganese,phosphorus ,potassium,sodium,and zinc. are abundant in Raw HoneyThanks for asking, i didn't know alot of it, and this is only some of the benefits of raw honey, over pasteurized honey. Why not label it for what it is.

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Jasper, Texas, USA
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Boris
    It would have been nice if you had linked to the Food News Safety article from April of 2012 instead of that older one from 2011.

    The USDA says honey is from nectar and does not need pollen to be present to be complete.

    Regular filtration can remove all pollen from honey depending on the honey and pollen source.

    This supports my post 194

    All a wild goose chase. But it made a nice Headline for a reporter.

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,790

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Boris I wish you would quit doing that. Please quit slagging my honey.

    HACCP, is a third party auditing certification process which provides food related industries a standard to work under. Its the same as the US HACCP program I believe. CFIA is a function of our government which imposes strict standards of food related industries and such.

    take a look

    http://haccpcanada.net/

    I doubt any consumer would object to our honey processing plant being certified by HACCP, AND have the honey supplied to them be from beekeeping operations registered with CFIA
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,790

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Boris, would your honey establishment pass the inspection requirements that fall under the HACCP certification processes?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    deKnow,Here is some food value of Raw Honey, natural sugars,minerals,and vitamins,and even antioxidant properties,it is fat free,and cholesterol free. The minerals, calcium,copper,iron,magnesium,manganese,phosphorus ,potassium,sodium,and zinc. are abundant in Raw HoneyThanks for asking, i didn't know alot of it, and this is only some of the benefits of raw honey, over pasteurized honey. Why not label it for what it is. -brooksbeefarm
    Maybe deknow asked, too, but I asked about nutritional values. What sorts of levels of these are found in honey? Standard nutritional labels for honey list sodium as 0% RDA, and 0 grams in one serving. I'd like to see the numbers if they're available.

    I think it's worth noting that calcium and sodium and iron and copper and phosphorus and the other metals listed aren't likely to be affected by pasteurization.

  10. #210
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mesa Arizona USA
    Posts
    163

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Wow Tia what an ignorant comment...political affiliation has nothing to do with this.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tia View Post
    Mark, I don't think I've ever posted a reply in this forum where you didn't tell me I'm wrong. Since you're so sure of the right answers to everything (you must be a Republican) I think I'll just stop posting and learn from your future sage advice.
    George Brenner @ www.valleyhoneyco.com
    Mesa, AZ

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,274

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post

    Ian and Mark - could you show us please some real proofs that you are more knowledgeable with this issue , than Bryant, who is director of the Palynology Research Laboratory.

    Boris Romanov
    Is this what we have come to? Mine is bigger than yours arguments? Your expert says that honey sold in grocery stores is not honey because it no longer contains pollen. And I ask, "Well, then what is it?" and the reply is "Syrup". I'm saying it isn't syrup, it's still honey. Neither of us will convince the other. This we call a dead head I believe.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #212
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tia View Post
    Mark, I don't think I've ever posted a reply in this forum where you didn't tell me I'm wrong. Since you're so sure of the right answers to everything (you must be a Republican) I think I'll just stop posting and learn from your future sage advice.
    Interesting rationale. But you are wrong, again.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #213
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
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    2,934

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Interesting rationale. But you are wrong, again.
    You must have been the only Republican at Nixon's Counter Inauguration Ceremony - LOL
    ďDonít tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.Ē - The Quran

  14. #214
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Yup. And I should make a mental note to have someone else tell Tia she is wrong the next time.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    2,623

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Boris - I am very anxious to see the lab results on BeeMaid honey. If indeed it is not legally honey,then we have been legally injured.

    Whose lab will you use? What test procedures? In what jurisdiction are you going to apply a legal definition? Will you be sampling more than one specimen? Have you created a legal trail of control over the specimen to verify that it is indeed as packed by BeeMaid, and not adulterated at a later date by anyone?

    If you need help choosing a lab, let me know, my honey gets tested annually for ISCIRA.


    Crazy Roland

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,547

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    deKnow,Here is some food value of Raw Honey, natural sugars,minerals,and vitamins,and even antioxidant properties....The minerals, calcium,copper,iron,magnesium,manganese,phosphorus ,potassium,sodium,and zinc. are abundant in Raw Honey
    OK....are these minerals and vitamins only in raw honey? "Abundant" isn't accurate. The table below is from Wikipedia...note that the percentages given are the percentage of the USDA recommnded daily intake....if one eats 3.5oz of honey a day (that's almost a quarter of a pound).

    Calcium...1%

    Copper...not even on the radar

    Iron...3%

    Magnesium....1%

    Etc and so forth....nothing comes in at more than 3% of the USDA recommendations. How much honey are you planning to eat? How much nutrition do you expect to get out of it? Add the carbohydrates (82.4%) and water (17.1%), you get 99.5% of what is in honey. Everything else combined (including pollen) is .5% of the weight of honey.

    For something like iron (which you mentioned specifically), you would have to eat 3000 grams (6.5lbs) pounds of honey to get a single days requirements. We have a customer that can eat 2lbs of honey in a day (no, we won't share him)....I've never seen anyone eat 6lbs in a day. Even water (which is at a very high concentration compared with any of these other substances,) is only 17ml in the quarter pound of honey...the recommended (by the Mayo clinic) amount of water for an adult male is 3L....so about 10lbs of honey to get your water for the day....good luck

    Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
    Energy 1,272 kJ (304 kcal)
    Carbohydrates 82.4 g
    - Sugars 82.12 g
    - Dietary fiber 0.2 g
    Fat 0 g
    Protein 0.3 g
    Water 17.10 g
    Riboflavin (vit. B2) 0.038 mg (3%)
    Niacin (vit. B3) 0.121 mg (1%)
    Pantothenic acid (B5) 0.068 mg (1%)
    Vitamin B6 0.024 mg (2%)
    Folate (vit. B9) 2 μg (1%)
    Vitamin C 0.5 mg (1%)
    Calcium 6 mg (1%)
    Iron 0.42 mg (3%)
    Magnesium 2 mg (1%)
    Phosphorus 4 mg (1%)
    Potassium 52 mg (1%)
    Sodium 4 mg (0%)
    Zinc 0.22 mg (2%)
    Shown is for 100 g, roughly 5 tbsp.
    Percentages are relative to
    US recommendations for adults.
    Source: USDA Nutrient Database



    ,it is fat free,and cholesterol free.
    A lack of something does not add food value.
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,250

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Yup. And I should make a mental note to have someone else tell Tia she is wrong the next time.
    ...and get accused of being a Republican???? Not a chance!
    Oh great, now Dean has spilled the beans on the dirty little secret about nutrition and honey, and don't forget the part about promoting tooth decay. Here's what I like about honey, particularly fresh unprocessed honey. IT TASTES GOOD!!!! Now go brush your teeth.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fair Grove,MO,USA
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    1,656

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    deKnow, yes that is the nutritional value of the honey that they tested, that could change with different forages. That was Raw Honey. Did you read that heating (pasteurizing) honey up to 37 C or 99F causes loss of nearly 200 components, some of which are antibacterial. Heating up to 40 C or104 F destroys invertase an important enzyme. The food value of raw honey Vs pasteurized honey doesn't even come close. it's sweet syrup.

  19. #219
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,547

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    deKnow, yes that is the nutritional value of the honey that they tested, that could change with different forages.
    Yes it will....but not much. If the sugar and the water is 99.5% of what is in honey, that doesn't leave a whole lotta room for nutrition.

    That was Raw Honey. Did you read that heating (pasteurizing) honey up to 37 C or 99F causes loss of nearly 200 components, some of which are antibacterial. Heating up to 40 C or104 F destroys invertase an important enzyme.
    The nice thing about Wikipedia is that they tell you what their source is....and they tell you when they don't have a source. Guess what the source is for both of those claims? [Citation Needed]. It doesn't even pass the smell test to claim "the loss of nearly 200 components". The evaporation? The denaturing? The metabolizing? What is a component? A chemical compound? A vitamin? A mineral? An amino acid? Can anyone name 200 components in honey?

    The other problem is if you look at the Wikipedia entry for invertase, it says it works best at 60C....20 degrees celcius higher than it takes to destroy invertase if it is honey?

    The food value of raw honey Vs pasteurized honey doesn't even come close. it's sweet syrup.
    I certainly prefer raw honey....but what is the food value of raw honey? Would you eat 10lbs of anything because it contained less than an ounce of "food value"?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  20. #220
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    Jun 2009
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    Montgomery County, NY
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    1,630

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Yup. And I should make a mental note to have someone else tell Tia she is wrong the next time.
    I'll step up to the plate and do it for you Mark. Just don't say I'm Republican or Democrat!

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