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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    ....yet the NHB spent 2.5 MILLION DOLLARS co-promoting The Bee Movie as an educational film (where the girls tittered about, bees drove cars in the hive, and male bees harvest pollen with guns).

    The industry has means....where is the will?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Haymarket, Virginia
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    197

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramona View Post
    It's not about "local" but understanding and trusting what is in the bottle. A "local" packing address does not ensure that the honey is local, nor does a "local" beekeeper address. Packers buy honey from many sources. Some beekeepers do as well. "Beekeeper mystique" and health codes that require a certified kitchen if one is bottling bought-in honey can make it difficult to know what exactly is in the jar. Labels are generally not helpful in the search for truth.

    Last week I was in several stores, giving out tastes to promote our products. I saw orange blossom honey from a local-ish packer tagged as "local", here in Massachusetts. A customer came to my table with a jar of a different southern blossom honey from another local company. She was very surprised to hear that just because the packing address is local does not mean the honey is local. "Wildflower" honey from a local company is not necessarily produced from fields in-state.

    The word "local" has taken on a life of its own and has come to be, for many, a projection of hopes and dreams. Many have lost faith in "organic" but those desires for a better world have been transferred to "local". "Local" does not ensure quality, any more than non-local means a lesser quality product.

    The important thing is to know and trust the source of what you are purchasing which isn't an easy task.

    After sampling and hearing about the beekeepers who produced what I have to offer, the customer returned the jar she was about to buy to the shelf and chose one of the honeys I was selling, non-local and at a higher price.

    If you are educating others, do your very best to be sure you know what you are telling them is true.

    Ramona
    I agree with everything you said. However, I should have defined "local" as in the beekeeper personally selling their own honey, generally ala a farmer's market. I know not all farmer's market honey is legit, but that can usually be discerned in a conversation...same as with tomatoes, apples, veggies, etc.

    I sure someone like you would have a tasting at one of the area groceries. At best, two chain groceries stock Virginia honey that tastes and appears like bulk package stuff. People buy honey thinking they're getting something they may or may not be.

  3. #23
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    The will to do what Dean? Educate over 300 million people about honey granulation with a budget that would be petty cash to McDonalds or InBev? Those packers that care about purity started TrueSource. It was started by packers committed to integrity who were tired of being underbid by the purveyors of rice syrup honey blends yet I even hear them getting bashed for selling honey that's not "real" simply because they are giving the consumer what they demand. I wish it was a simple task to educate a whole nation but it just isn't.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Well, if beekeepers and the whole beekeeping industry isn't willing to do it, it will never happen.

    OTOH, beekeepers are willing to "educate" the nation that "local honey is good for your allergies" (apparently spring honey from area X helps with fall allergies in area X even though there is no common pollen content between the seasons....but honey from area Y is ineffective). If that kind of energy were spent (and note, this is not something that a lot of money gets spent promoting) regarding honey crystallization, a noticeable effect would be achieved.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  5. #25
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    I will do my part, you no doubt will do yours but the ignorance out there about honey is overwhelming. I can't even count how many times through the years I have had people tell me about the jar of honey they bought that spoiled even though it was kept in the refrigerator. But this is a nation where disclaimers are put on Viagra ads warning that their product doesn't protect against std's. good luck with a nationwide honey granulation lecture.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Goal or bottom line:...Selling imported honey in the United States of America and making profit.

    Changing the definition of honey, redefining processing techniques, PR for the consumer to accept honey that looks and tastes like corn syrup, is all for that goal.

    For the pitiful domestic beekeeper producer who does not add diatomaceous earth to their honey in preparation for removal of nasties like pollen, you are just bottling some quaint, uncouth product. Perhaps you will have to warn consumers that it contains allergic material.

    If the Honey Board were really interested in representing the domestic producer, they would educate the consumer about "real" honey, not how they should accept processed, imported honey.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,082

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    With regard to consumer education about honey, the California Milk Board alone spends $25-30 million dollars a year on milk advertising. Wisconsin spends a similar amount. Add in other diary states, and the Feds, and you have spending well over $100 million dollars a year on milk "education".

    It will take many buckets (perhaps even totes) of money to re-educate the average consumer to prefer granulated honey.

    (I'd post sources for my numbers, but consolidated figures are hard to come by. But Google "milk advertising budget" if you want.)
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    I am a bit "out of the mold" on the whole issue of imports. The US consumes around 400 million pounds each year, possibly even more. We produce around 150 million lbs. There are good people all over the world raising honey most of them small family owned businesses that includes many members here on Beesource. There are also greedy, dishonest folks trying to make some easy money importing a lot of stuff that isn't honey by any definition but is sold as such. I am in favor of importing legitimate honey as long as it passes testing protocols as being safe. Imports are not the problem it's the whole issue of honey authenticity.

  9. #29
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Using an advertising model to perform education is not efficient. How much is spent in large advertising campaigns wrt local honey and allergies? How much was spent by the industry to bring the level of "CCD awareness" that we have today?

    Generally, if something like the California milk board spends $25 million in advertising, it is mostly because they have a budget of 25million, not a demonstrated need for $25 million in advertising.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Jim...are you saying that your crystallized honey is moldy?

    Seriously though, I agree with Jim...focusing on quality (and purity) rather than country of origin is much more important.

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  11. #31
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    Nov 2003
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    Williston, NC, USA
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    1,779

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Proud to say, thanks to the hard work of Mr. Heatherly and Dr. Ambrose, NC now has a honey standard. See http://www.rtpnet.org/ncsba/Honey%20Standard.pdf. We've made every effort in NC to education our bee product purchasers and always suggest to them that they know their beekeeper!

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    ....these standares are always problematic. For instance, from the one posted above:


    The sucroe content of honey must not be more than 5 grams per 100 grams of the product unless the honey is labeled as a particular floral source. In that case the sucrose content may be higher, if it is properly labeled as to floral source.


    The above is both too specific and not specific enough. It is absurd that the same honey would qualify as legit with a high sucrose content as a specific floral source, and not legit if it were labeled as wildflower honey.



    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  13. #33
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    My opinion, if you start with honey going in, filtering etc....., you get honey out as long as you're not adding anything. Removing pollen meets a demand and produces a product for a specific market, just label it as such. Personally I hate granulated honey, it's hard to work with, especially if it's a large crystal granulation. A fine granulation is ok though, but again, when I'm in the kitchen the last thing I want to do is fight a bottle of honey for it's contents. Perhaps it's more of a packaging thing, really hard to get into those little mouth containers to scoop out granulated honey, which is why I stick to jars for mine.

    I believe it's 3 floral sources that will not granulate. Tupelo (I think white tupelo specifically) being one of them, another is a tropical flower I believe, can't recall the 3rd. In the end, the glucose to fructose ratio is what drives the process, but other factors can speed it along, solids etc... that act as crystallization points (i.e pollen, wax, bee parts). The information is out there but it seems no one really wants to pursue it. Even with threads on this forum, a lot of people here do not know what drives crystallization, and a lot of people just think it's a byproduct of 'raw' honey.

  14. #34
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    Jul 2006
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    Grahamsville, NY
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    440

    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    "Several states are in the process of passing laws or regulations establishing a legal definition of honey because the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ignored repeated requests to do so. A legal definition could result in a ban on the sale of honey where the pollen has been removed."
    From the new article (February 2013): Honey laundering: fraud on the shelves?
    http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/sc/...aundering.html

  15. #35
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    Oct 2011
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    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by Tia View Post
    Proud to say, thanks to the hard work of Mr. Heatherly and Dr. Ambrose, NC now has a honey standard. See http://www.rtpnet.org/ncsba/Honey%20Standard.pdf. ...
    Bravo!!!
    Серёжа, Sergey

  16. #36
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    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    I am sorry, but if the bees make honey and some pollen is in it, it SHOULD be left in it. Remove the pollen, and it is no longer honey, but rather "Depollened honey" and should be labeled as such. If I removed the great smell of VSOP cognac, would be worth less? I did not remove much, just a little.

    As to those that don't like large crystalled honey, buy honey with the pollen not removed, the pollen grains help to seed the crystals and make a smaller crystal.


    I am not sold o Truessource. They count honeydew as honey.They Do however look for pollen, but only have one accredited lab that they work with, hmmmmmm. They should rather define the lab procedure, and let any accredited lab perform the procedure. Sounds like there will be a market in China for foreign pollen.

    Crazy Roland

  17. #37
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    So far I have seen no links to any "Tests [which] Show Most Honey Isn't Honey". Where are the Links.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  18. #38
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    Oct 2011
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    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    So far I have seen no links to any "Tests [which] Show Most Honey Isn't Honey". Where are the Links.
    Hi Mark
    I guess the source is in original post (I did not check):
    "....
    •100 percent of the honey packaged in the small individual service portions from Smucker, McDonald’s and KFC had the pollen removed. "

    From: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/1.../#.UQ1sbh3m1n5


    Boris Romanov

    ...."
    Серёжа, Sergey

  19. #39
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    It says that the pollen was removed. It didn't say that it isn't honey. The pollen was removed from the honey. If you remove pollen from honey, what remains? Honey, right? Therefore, I think his Thread Title is a misstatement, an inaccurate statement of facts.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #40
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey

    I fully agree Mark.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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