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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida, United States
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    @Daniel Y

    Of course it matters. Just like Rick1456 states, vendors are stressing/advertising "survivor bees", so that would infer that there are specific traits linked to this title. I would also think that the fact that leaders in the field of honey bee study and development/breeding are working on the subject would also add credibility to the idea that there is in fact credibility behind the idea of "survivor bees". Daniel Y, because you don't buy into it doesn't really mean anything other than you, one consumer in the world of beekeeping, doesn't buy into this criteria or see any merit. Well, lots of beeks don't agree on simpler things such as queen excluders either. So be it, you don't buy the hype, but that still isn't going to change the fact that bee sellers do, IN FACT sell "survivor bees" and that more sellers are developing better bees which are called "survior". Lastly, even those working on the so-called "survivor bees" stress LOCAL in their research. Survivor in one area isn't going to translate NECESSARILY to another. I think just about every leader in the field also admits that there is no "super bee".

    The whole idea of the thread wasn't to make a final determination of if "survivor bees" is hype or fantasy...it was to determine what is the criteria for what a survivor bee IS. If we can draw or conjure an idea of a unicorn, we can IN FACT do the same with "survivor bees".
    Last edited by Barry; 02-28-2013 at 10:36 PM. Reason: personal attack

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
    Posts
    1,358

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    Quote Originally Posted by SippyBees View Post
    To JBJ.. Have never heard of requeening every 6 months though. Because the BMP quote you write INCLUDES the term EHB stock... I am wondering if this recommendation is to prevent propogation of AHB bees.. since you are in Florida.
    Yeh that is the reason for every 6 months. But if you manage your bees ya sure as heck are going to find out if your bees are ahb it ain't rocket science.
    Im really not that serious

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
    Posts
    1,358

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    Quote Originally Posted by SippyBees View Post
    Soft treatments such as FGMO or OA... or whatever... doesn't seem to affect the bees health or future genetics....and in my opinion should not take away from their qualification as survivors.
    I would NOT consider them survivor. I think ANY mite treatments or meds used for nosima or foul brood would not be considered survivor. Without treatment they would not survive.
    Im really not that serious

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    839

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    It was said earlier that feeding wouldn't be considered survivor. To me this is a contradiction unless the hive started early / mid flow and was able to store honey and it wasn't taken from them. If we are harvesting honey then to me that needs to be replaced or we only harvest to the point that they have plenty to get them through.

    To me survivor is a hive that is there w/o any intervention for years. I wouldn't even care if they did throw a swarm yearly, as that is an indicator to me that they are thriving and that's how they "survive" and thrive.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    I would accept the term survivor for bees that have demonstrated 2 years and still productive, with no PESTICIDE treatment of the bees. Soft treatments such as FGMO or OA... or whatever... doesn't seem to affect the bees health or future genetics....and in my opinion should not take away from their qualification as survivors. -SippyBees
    "No pesticides" means no pesticides, in my opinion. "Hard," "soft," or otherwise, a pesticide is a chemical intended to kill an organism deemed a "pest."

    If you were to crush leaves, extract a compound produced by a plant and use that chemical to (hopefully) kill mites in a beehive, would that be "hard" or "soft?" Would it even be a "pesticide?" What if that compound is nicotine? Or pyrethrum?

    How does a plant-produced chemical differ from a man-made one? From a practical standpoint and a physiological standpoint, how does natural nicotine differ from a man-made form (neonicotinoid)?

    Whether or not it's stated, the term "survivor" implies that the bees can survive on their own, without help from humans. To me, that means no pesticides used (hard, soft, or otherwise), no feeding to prevent starvation (feeding to replace what the bees produced by themselves is a different matter, I think), no manipulations to deliberately change the populations of pests or pathogens within the hives, no medications to control pathogens.

    How do you explain that wiled bees still exist after millions of years? -Acebird
    They've made it this long. Death is the certain end of each living individual organism. Extinction is the certain end of each species or organism. Some exist for longer periods of time, some for shorter. What causes that extinction differs for each species. Some simply can't compete with better adapted organisms. Some can't adapt to changes in the environment. What will cause the extinction of a seemingly populous species right now can be difficult to predict. But don't assume that each species will adapt to or overcome each and every change.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,978

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    The only issue I have on the feeding is.... if no food is available (drought etc...) bees are going to be hungry anyways.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Hartwell, GA
    Posts
    183

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    Can't leave this thread without leaving an example. I was asked by an Uncle if I would remove the bees from his house. I ask how long they had been there, his reply was " As long as I've lived there". That's over 20 years. They built their nest in the highest corner of the eve and enter through a hole about finger size. I couldn't get to them, second story. These bees are survivors.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Campbell River, BC, CA
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: definition of "survivor bees"

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottsman View Post
    Can't leave this thread without leaving an example. I was asked by an Uncle if I would remove the bees from his house. I ask how long they had been there, his reply was " As long as I've lived there". That's over 20 years. They built their nest in the highest corner of the eve and enter through a hole about finger size. I couldn't get to them, second story. These bees are survivors.
    You know, we have a friend that said the same thing to us, he has bees in the eaves of the house, been there 'forever'. I doubted that, but, turns out our neighbors across the street today, are the former owners of that house, and they agree, the bees were there as long as they owned the house. So, we had confirmation of bees in that house for 20+ years. Very interesting, we were going to see about getting stock out of that hive. But, it was to late in the year to start a new hive, so we just started watching.

    In november, on a nice day when our bees were flying, we stopped by and checked. Sure enough, bees were coming and going from the hole in the side of the house. Great. Come january, we had a nice day, and again stopped to check. Bees in hives beside our house were flying, and, lots of housecleaning, lots of dead bees on the ground in front of the hive. Over to the survivors in the house, not a bee coming or going, and not a single dead bee on the ground. Oh well, it's in the shade, maybe it's to cold for them. Late february, another day like that, bees flying like crazy from the hives beside our house, so stop by and check. No sign of life at the 'survivor' colony. Late march rolls around, and our bees are booming, all the hives beside the house have orientation going, it's a beautiful sunny day, bees are coming and going like crazy. Stop by the survivor colony, no sign of life, not a single bee coming or going. Hmmmmm.

    Wind the clock forward, mid may (just about the start of swarm season here), and we find out, the survivor colony has 'woke up'. Sure enough, bees coming and going like crazy.

    Wind the clock forward a couple more months, and we discover quite by accident, 5 houses up the road, is a fella that keeps bees, 5 hives hidden in the back yard, completely out of sight, they have been there 'forever'. Those bees get pollen patties and feed early, so they will be built up for the early flows.

    These dots all line up in a strait line, easy to connect.

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