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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,519

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVMJ View Post
    I put some top bar combs in a nuc deep on top of another deep to let the bees get the honey, they then added to the comb and anchored it right to the top of the bars under it, we have to saw the boxes in half to open them. This spring the top bar combs go back into the TBH to stay. WVMJ
    Strange, I never (keeping in mind my limited experience) had it. In my situation, it is more likely to have comb attached to the sides but not to the bottom. I wonder how often you inspect your hives? In my hands, it took at least month (more!) for bees to start attaching comb to the sides. Of coarse, TB approach is needed when "frameless frames" used - carefully cut comb if anchored before removing the frame. Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,519

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by psfred View Post
    .... Takes a lot of nectar to make wax, after all, and they fill them up much faster when you use drawn empty comb rather than empty frames or foundation...
    Peter, where you get it? I am curious. This statement appeared from time-to-time in different places to justify the use of drawn comb to save nectar/honey... I was trying to find any reasonable evidence that this is true - no luck, only unsupported statements.... Based on study I did, the origin of this myth is just calculation how much chemical energy is needed to convert sugar (nectar) into wax... If so, it is nothing to do with real situation. Since wax produced by special glands, bees likely have no control (or limited control) over the function of the glands. Thus, wax, probably produced all the time wasting valuable nectar... I would imagine that bees produce wax only at some stage of development (nurses?). It would be interesting to hear if anybody have real facts on it. Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    Since wax produced by special glands, bees likely have no control (or limited control) over the function of the glands. Thus, wax, probably produced all the time wasting valuable nectar...
    I have read that bees produce wax when they are forced to hold nectar in there stomach because there is no place to store it. It was said that this is why swarms are such great comb builders.

    Wax is not produced all the time. There are times (late in the season for example) when it is difficult to get them to build comb.
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Topeka, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by Intheswamp View Post
    ...I wonder if a raised edge was attached to the bottom bar if the bees would be more inclined to attach to it. I'm sure someone has tried this...I'm waiting to hear from them.

    Ed
    I have built some foundationless frames with a "comb guide" pointing up on the bottom bar (bottom bar is actually triangle stock) and they seem to connect the comb more quickly and completely on those frames.
    Last edited by oldfordguy; 02-01-2013 at 05:58 AM. Reason: spelling

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralittlefield View Post
    <snip>... It was said that this is why swarms are such great comb builders. ...<snip>
    I believe that this is also the reason we find external colonies....the bees, while hanging on a branch or whatever waiting for the scouts to come back and lead them to their new home/cavity, get tired of having a packed belly full of honey and start a little comb building...once the queen lays a small patch of brood in it they figure it's all good and call it "home".

    oldfordguy, how did you rig your bottom bars? I've got some grooved bottom bars that I'm thinking of using if I can find a good size of wood trim to slip in there and glue, I thought about using some wedges for wedge top frames but they are too wide. I'm thinking if I can find the right thickness of trim I can rip it longways if it's too broad.

    Ed

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Jefferson Co., WV, USA
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    Actually, I found some braided fishing line like Gorrila Braid looped a couple of times between some D-rings works great to cut the combs from between boxes. I am not trying to keep Top bars in these boxes permanently, I broke my TBH and needed a place to store the bars with bees before I fixed their hive, of course TGH still waiting to be fixed but winter isnt over yet WVMJ

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmooretx View Post
    Try using a long thin bread knife to separate them, after removing what frames you can, and put them in a temporary deep, until the surgery is done. Some prying/proping with a hive tool may be needed to get access to the middle top bars, or try sliding the top box over enough to use the flexable bread knife.
    Better to sacrafice some comb rather than a box. Anyway just some thoughts, and best of luck.
    Meadmaking with WVMJ at Meads and Elderberry Winemaking

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Jefferson Co., WV, USA
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Bottom-bar-less foundationless frames?

    My first year, I probably inspect them to much. It did not take them long to connect and widen the top bar hive combs when I put them in some deep nucs, they took it right down to the top of the bars in the box below and then widened it and filled them up with honey. I hope to build another TBH so that I can swap comb around and not try to store in a Lang box again. I do plan on letting the nucs build new comb on some top bars to get them started. Funny thing is they never attached the combs from the top bars to the sides of the nuc box, just to the next bar below. WVMJ

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    Strange, I never (keeping in mind my limited experience) had it. In my situation, it is more likely to have comb attached to the sides but not to the bottom. I wonder how often you inspect your hives? In my hands, it took at least month (more!) for bees to start attaching comb to the sides. Of coarse, TB approach is needed when "frameless frames" used - carefully cut comb if anchored before removing the frame. Sergey
    Meadmaking with WVMJ at Meads and Elderberry Winemaking

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