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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    How can it be? SC bees don't get mites and are more resistant to secondary diseases. Dee, Barry and Michael told us so again and again.
    Is it cold and rainy where you are? Odfrank wants to make sure we don't forget where he stands on the issue!
    Regards, Barry

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    4 of my 9 hives died this winter. One was very small and weak last fall (did a bunch of splits last year) and I didn't expect it to survive, and I'm pretty sure I killed one this late winter that I fed via baggie and forgot to check. Appears to have dripped down onto the cluster.
    Regards, Barry

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    170

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    So, the conclusion seems to be that Nosema Ceranae was the cause of my high losses.

    I am using UV light to kill spores on comb and woodenware on the deadouts.
    What equipment is used and how is this done, heaflaw? Are there any other manipulations we should do with spare combs and frames that are 1-3 years old to make sure we are putting in disease-free equipment into our hives? This wouldn't consistute a "treatment" would it, since it's occurring on hardware outside of the hive? Thanks for the insights.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    How many does that leave you?
    Well from a peak of 9 hives there are 3 left. Although I have a confession, there were 4 small cell hives at my house being used as queen cell raisers. They began getting high mite levels that would have affected queen cell quality, so I treated them. So they are out as far as being treatment free hives now. So out of the 9, 2 lost, 4 treated so out of the program, 2 alive but not looking good, and one being the one looking fine, but a heckuva lot of mites.

    I have a feeling they may all be lost come spring. However I have 21 sc TF nucs. Long as some of those survive I will restock the dead hives, and in fact I would see that as a move towards sustainability, ie taking some hard knocks but surviving. However if I lose every single last bee, I will be giving it up.

    But let's see where this goes.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiebooks View Post
    My worst fears are realized: I am down to one full colony and one nuc - down from a high of about 30 in 2012. Went into winter with 24 or so. Again, my fault. My work schedule didn't let me work them and get them up to weight where they needed to be. Mites didn't help. A close inspection of one deadout found mites on many of them. some had multiple mites. The mites had dug up underneath the plates of the abdomen of the bees. Well, I have two to work with for now until (hopefully) some swarm calls come in. -js
    UPDATE: I did the survey yesterday and checked my log book. I actually had only 18 living colonies on 1 OCT 2012. so, the other 12 perished prior to that date. Still, down to one full colony and one very small nuc. Weather had turned very cold here over last couple of days and it actually snowed/slushed yesterday and many things were in bloom. Not looking good for this year. -js

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    546

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    I'm down 12 out of 41, with 2 more that look weak (ouch). Finally pollen coming in this week so the worst may be over.

    All but 3 of the losses are from the same bee yard. No pollen in the dead outs at that yard, drought and poor fall forage, I should have moved that yard to a better location. Some dead mites on the bottom boards but not many. Treatment free beginner mistakes are expensive.

    Surviving hives look good.


    Bummed regards. ....Don

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    "Bummed Regards" LOL

    At least you are still smiling.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    603

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Even though it looks like you're off to an incredibly hard start with all the losses I wish you the best.
    Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
    Facebook

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lincolnton, NC
    Posts
    1,019

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Davidson View Post
    What equipment is used and how is this done, heaflaw? Are there any other manipulations we should do with spare combs and frames that are 1-3 years old to make sure we are putting in disease-free equipment into our hives? This wouldn't consistute a "treatment" would it, since it's occurring on hardware outside of the hive? Thanks for the insights.
    I am setting wooden ware and frames with empty comb in the sun. Of course, once the weather turns too warm, I can't do it because the wax will melt. I purchased a black light and am shining that on the combs with honey/sugar water/pollen and turning the frames different ways every few hours. Here's where I got my information:

    http://www.extension.org/pages/63774...-nosema-spores

    http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/CAPArticle6.html

    Also, I read somewhere ( I can't find the article now) that bees that ingested dead spores developed a resistance to Nosema Ceranae. So, I hope that I am not ony preventing them from dying of Nosema this season, but making them resistant long term.

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    170

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    I am setting wooden ware and frames with empty comb in the sun. Of course, once the weather turns too warm, I can't do it because the wax will melt. I purchased a black light and am shining that on the combs with honey/sugar water/pollen and turning the frames different ways every few hours. Here's where I got my information:...
    Thanks, heaflaw!

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    After the disappointment with my treatment free hives, went and checked the small cell treatment free nucs yesterday. Was kinda expecting the worst.

    However, pleasant surprise! of the 21, 3 were queenless, as the last round of queen cells that went in around a month ago, 3 had failed to mate. So I pulled dividers and combined them with their neighbors. Last time I went there, when caged queens and planted cells a month ago, a number of nucs were looking poorly with mites, pms and dwv. This time, amazingly, all those nucs were fine. Not a sign of a mite.

    Just wish somebody new how that works.

    Just one nuc, one that had a few mites last time but was not the worst, is now looking pretty bad, really do doubt it will make the winter but have left it, to see.

    Only bad thing that happened, winter's around the corner so all nucs that needed it were given a comb of honey. From somewhere and I don't know where, hoards of robbers showed up & all nucs were getting harassed. Nothing much I could do just shut everything and got out of there.

    Feeling a bit better now, it's looking pretty likely there will be surviving small cell treatment free nucs next spring to restock the deadout small cell hives.

    I have a question for you treatment free folks. I'll have to store the deadout hives over winter, with black combs, pollen, and dead brood, perfect wax moth fodder. If I do nothing, by spring, these will be totally destroyed by wax moths. What I normally do if storing anything that will attract wax moths, is put a fume board on top of the stack, and once a month or so I'll put a little formic acid on the fume board, kills any wax moths. Is that considered a treatment? and if it is what should I do? (deep freeze is out of the question). Oh by the way winters here are mild, wax moths are very active all winter.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,041

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    great report ot, very encouraging.

    i have been storing mine in my garage, with the boxes turned on end and no bottom or top so that the light can get in.

    i have a freezer, but only so much room, so i have been rotating them.

    do you think after freezing that some kind of mosquito netting would keep the moths out?
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  13. #153
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baker Oregon
    Posts
    2,291

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Or store them on a tx free hive. I believe that is the approach that Solomon uses.
    Dan Hayden 4 Years. 9 hives. Tx Free. USDA Zone 5b.

  14. #154
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    I don't actually own a deep freeze.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #155
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Hi Rio, I think that works for Sol because of his cold winters.

    For me, the 2 hives I have left (which may yet be lost), would not be able to cover all the combs in the other boxes if I put them on, and the weather is warm enough wax moths would run amuck.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I don't actually own a deep freeze.
    Could you rotate just the frames through your kitchen freezer? It would take a lot longer but perhaps better than nothing.

    A couple years ago, I acquired some old window screens (the kind with a metal frame) that someone had tossed out. I stacked a few boxes and put on a screen then a few more boxes then another screen, etc. My theory was that if one box did have wax moth eggs that hatched, they would be limited to just a few boxes. -js

  17. #157
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Well it's possible Dixiebooks, although I have not put this suggestion to the "primary user of the kitchen" yet LOL.

    Screens can work, sometimes. But being a cheapskate, I'm probably looking for an easier, and foolproof way. Reading a past thread on the treatment free forum, acetic acid and bleach were not considered treatments when used to sterilize equipment not in use, so I may just pump for a bit of formic in the boxes long as it's not used on any actual bees.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Yes, it is a PITA running them through the kitchen freezer. That is why I pried the wallet out of my pocket and bought a freezer. Initially looked for a good used one but wound up getting a new one at sears. I was able to get 6 months or something with no interest. So far, it is one of the best beekeeping tools I have bought to date. -js

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiebooks View Post
    That is why I pried the wallet out of my pocket and bought a freezer.
    LOL

    I can tell when I'm being got at, albeit in the nicest possible way.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #160
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Treatment-Free, Winter 2012-2013, How's it going?

    NAH! I was getting at myself. I never met anyone more stingy... I mean, thrifty...than myself. lol -js

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