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  1. #1
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    Default Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Tell the EPA: Immediately suspend the pesticide (s) that's killing bees!
    http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/...834044-awEM86x
    A blockbuster study by the European Food Safety Authority has for the first time labeled the pesticide believed to be behind colony collapse disorder as an "unacceptable" danger to bees. EPA should take immediate action and suspend the use of clothianidin.
    BUT..... WE ALSO MUST ADD in our email.....Imidacloprid, thiamethoxam, and dinotefuran as ALL are neonicotinoids which are acutely toxic to honey bees as well as thiacloprid and acetamiprid.
    NOTE: IF WE DO NOT ADD THEM, THE EPA WILL ALLOW THE OTHER 5 NEONICOTINOIDS! These neonicotinoid insecticide chemicals are highly water soluble and are present throughout treated plants from seed to harvest! Neonicotinoids are known to persist in the soil for years and have the potential to accumulate in the soil.
    And in case folks don't see them, here are the links to some of the studies mentioned in the article:
    1. "Pesticides and Honey Bees: State of the Science," Pesticide Action Network North America
    2. " Insecticide 'unacceptable' danger to bees, report finds," Guardian, 1/16/13
    3. "European Agency concludes neonicotinoid pesticides too dangerous for bees," NRDC, 1/16/13
    4. "Leaked document shows EPA allowed bee-toxic pesticide despite own scientists' red flags," Grist, 12/10/10
    In this article you will find discussion on:
    *Multiple routes of pesticide exposure for honey bees living near agricultural fields,
    *Synergistics and combined effects of "Chemical cocktails: fungicides, pyrethroid inxecticides and mitecides",
    *synergistic effects between neonicotinoids and fungicides, (neonicotinoid was found to be up to 1,141 times more toxic to bees when combined with a common fungicide)
    * Microbiota out of balance: Gut cultures, immunity + nutrition (An emerging paradigm of colony health--microbial balance of the honey bee and hive or Apis malifera.) as a result of
    * High levels of miticides and agrochemicals in North American apiaries--implications for honey bee health which include systemic pesticides and systemic fungicides
    With specific regard to pesticides, the authors noted that broad spectrum antibiotics and fungicides applied directly to control disease, are also known to destroy beneficial non-target fungi and bacteria in ways may disrupt the hives beneficial microbial balance.

    Imidacloprid is habitually present in flowering treated corn at levels known from previous dose studies to induce a variety of harmful effects including eventual death for honey bees due to Imidacloprid-contaminated corn pollen. Imidacloprid made up of 54% of pollen samples collected at hive entrances.

    Concentrations of highly toxic neonicotinoid insecticides known to cause harm to honey bees include not only Clothianidin but Imidacloprid, both which persist in the soil for years and have the potential to accumulate in the soil! as well as Thiamethoxam, and dinotefuran which are of the subclass nitroguanidines. Cyanoamidines, another subclass of neonicotinoid insecticides that are not quite as acutely toxic to honey bees include thiacloprid and acetamiprid.
    These neonicotinoid insecticide chemicals are also highly water soluble and are present throughout treated plants from seed to harvest!

    Note: The table on page 7 as well as pages 8-10 which describe the terms acute toxicity, sub-lethal toxicity and cumulative and chronic effects which will help in observation of your own hives and individual bee behavior and activity.

    * Entombed pollen--what it is and its cause and effect on the entire colony.
    Please ask those in your circle of influence to respond to the above link and to ADD the other 5 neonicotinoid chemicals as the only one this group is suggesting to the EPA is clothianidin .
    Maybe members would like to discuss this article at our next meeting.
    Stay warm!

    Melanie Fisher

    208 409-9386 cell
    660 562-3331 hm
    Helping people and animals LiveBetter~Naturally!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    >Helping people and animals LiveBetter~Naturally!

    i think you may be several centuries too late, sorry melanie.

    but i'll bite, what's your alternative solution?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    hint: deforestation started in earnest after the discovery of the new world.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    To Squarepeg,

    I received the above message through email and just copied and pasted it to a new thread. So if you'd like to ask Melanie your questions, you may have to call her by phone or email her at melanoni@gmail.com

    Do check out http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/...834044-awEM86x If you agree with the petition, then please sign it. Thanks.

    Bubbles

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    understood bubbles. here is a recent article from a trained scientist who also is a professional beekeeper. i would be interested in your opinion on it.

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick...ed-pesticides/
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    The author made a great point:
    "My point of going into detail on the analysis of Jim Doan’s apparently obvious bee kill was that if it’s that hard to figure out exactly what caused an acute pesticide kill, imagine how difficult it would be to definitively link colony mortality to any sublethal effects from a specific pesticide! "

    Makes me feel frustrated and helpless. Maybe signing the petition would empower us somehow?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    maybe bubbles, but i'm not sure asking the government to ban the use of this class of insecticide is realistic without that ability to 'definitively link colony mortality to any sublethal effects'.

    i think the author is saying that there is no evidence, and it would be almost impossible to obtain evidence of neonics causing sublethal effects.

    so i can't sign my name to a petition that has me asking my government to ban something because 'maybe there's a problem' when there's no real good proof that there is.

    the better proof at this point in time is that unless there is an accidental release due to improper seeding practices, there doesn't appear to be a significant problem that would warrant going back to spraying.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Well stated squarepeg.........

    As Randy olovier points out, I live in the middle of the highest use neonics and pesticides in the country.... and my bees do fine.....usualy despite my fumbulings...... And every one of my hives is within 100 yards of corn or beans that are sprayed

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    These knee-jerk reactions to a poorly done study are becoming tedious. Of course an insecticide will kill bees, that's obvious. But which ones are really impacting bees? For my money the bigger danger are the fungicides which are sprayed everywhere. My bees came out of an apple orchard last spring in terrible shape, in spite of lots of dandelions and other flowers available. The orchard was sprayed with a fungicide the day before I brought the bees in. No pesticide was sprayed on this orchard until after I left. I know demand to know what has been sprayed in the weeks before I go in and I turn down the contract if the farmer won't disclose or has sprayed lately.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    To Squarepeg: you said: "maybe bubbles, but i'm not sure asking the government to ban the use of this class of insecticide is realistic without that ability to 'definitively link colony mortality to any sublethal effects'."
    Wikipedia says: The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) is an agency of the European Union that provides independent scientific advice and communication on existing and emerging risks associated with the food chain, created by European Regulation 178/2002.[1][2]
    The EFSA have labeled the pesticide believed to be behind colony collapse disorder as an "unacceptable" danger to bees based on their studies. Shouldn't that be acceptable enough proof for the EPA?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    that's like asking if the u.s.a. should let the united nations tell us what we can and cannot do.

    as for europe, i think some of the countries have already lifted the ban on neonics after finding out some of the 'danger' was unfounded.

    like you bubbles, i am no expert in this field. that's why i really appreciate randy oliver's review of the literature. he also is able to put this information into meaningful context for me as a beekeeper. here are the two articles that deal specifically with this issue:

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/neon...f-the-science/

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/neon...cience-part-2/

    of course, if you have your mind already made up, well, far be it from me to attempt to change it. and for what it's worth, i respect your right to your point of view. you still haven't provided me with an alternative solution to the neonics, do you have a better way?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Maybe I have an alternative solution to the neonics. But this one I am still in the process of testing on my own garden and orchard.
    http://backtoedenfilm.com/#movie

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Also consider what consequences the banning of a suspect pesticide may have. they will use another. possibly worse one. And No Europe's suspicion of a chemical is not evidence. It is almost like deciding it must be a chemical. now we just have to find the one to blame. I prefer to recognize there is a problem and discover it's cause. I have seen just as much discussion that Varroa and the diseases they vector as the cause of CCD as I have seen chemicals being suspected.

    This is a bit out there but it could happen. If banning becomes some loose cannon method of attempting to solve problems. what is to prevent the banning of the honey bee for the use of pollination? That is the problems I see in the Polyanna (No insult intended) view of the future. you never see the shadowy side of your own solution.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Maybe I have an alternative solution to the neonics. But this one I am still in the process of testing on my own garden and orchard.
    http://backtoedenfilm.com/#movie
    'back to eden' is why i said that in my first post that we are probably a few centuries too late. i don't think it's realistic to reforest the world and expect every family to revert to the backyard growing of their own groceries. this doesn't mean i am not concerned about the environment and the effects that mankind has on it, but i am not smart enough to come up with a better plan.

    are you familiar with the 'left behind' (by lahaye and jenkins) series? it's a fictional account of what the end of days may be like. the relevent part to this discussion is that an israeli scientist came up with a breakthrough that turned desert wasteland into fertile cropland and the world's hunger crisis was alleviated.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Unfortunately the "return to Eden" thing would end up in WW3 the reality is we feed the world with the way we do things. and dang few farmers are intentionally damaging the future. Humans as a whole would not support the food shortages that would come with the changes. I find it very interesting that the "back to nature" types are also the same types that think we shouldn't let anyone starve. The two do not go hand in hand. if the did then the pacific northwest would support more people than the Midwest... but as we know thats not the case.

    If you can get the goverments of the world to rescind the property taxes on the land used for farming we could make a start on getting rid of pesticides. profits from the land would no longer be required and we could revert to praticies with lower yields.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Also consider what consequences the banning of a suspect pesticide may have. they will use another. possibly worse one. And No Europe's suspicion of a chemical is not evidence. It is almost like deciding it must be a chemical. now we just have to find the one to blame. I prefer to recognize there is a problem and discover it's cause. I have seen just as much discussion that Varroa and the diseases they vector as the cause of CCD as I have seen chemicals being suspected.
    Supposedly, the EFSA actually did an in-depth scientific study to come up with their conclusion. So they shouldn't just be suspicions.

    Also, have you considered that the bees actually act like the canary they bring in the mines? If the pesticides are hurting them badly, what do you think it's doing to our body? Have you noticed so many cases of cancer and other inflammatory diseases affecting the people all around us? Also, pesticides slowly lose their effectiveness because the bugs that survive from the effects of the pesticides mutate and develop resistance. So we end up with more destructive bugs that are harder to kill. IMO, pesticides is not the answer.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    are you familiar with the 'left behind' (by lahaye and jenkins) series? it's a fictional account of what the end of days may be like. the relevent part to this discussion is that an israeli scientist came up with a breakthrough that turned desert wasteland into fertile cropland and the world's hunger crisis was alleviated.
    You might want to check out this link on how Israel is doing agriculturally. Maybe there is some truth in the movie's futuristic prediction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Israel

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    are automobiles the answer? is the earth the canary? there are many health problems can we attribute to air pollution, not to mention the release of greenhouse gasses and climate change. are you willing to give up your vehicle(s)?

    antibiotics are poisons that kill small bugs. using antibiotics saves lives. using antibiotics can also result in developing more virulent and resistant organisms. are antibiotics the answer? would you take them if you life depended on it?

    it's about balancing the risks with the benefits and yes, sometimes we don't get it right. but sometimes we do. too bad we don't live in a perfect world........the garden of eden.

    are neonics hurting bees? the best science at this point in time says they do not, with the exception of overdusting from improper seeding practices. as with all science, this is subject to revision as more information becomes available. in the mean time, we'll have to settle for what we know and strive to learn more about what we don't know.

    thanks for the debate bubbles. i wish you well in your quest for a pesticide free world.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    If it was so easy to link Neonicotinoids with bee kill offs it would have hit the courts in a class action lawsuit that would make DDT and asbestose related suits blush. Lawyers dream of such links and as soon as one is proven they'll be all over it like white on rice. Bottom line, no scientific causal relationship has yet been proven no matter what anyone says. Suspected?, sure along with other goofy things like cell towers, HFCS, sun spots, Elvis, etc. Aim, aim, aim then fire. You don't fire first, then go down range to see what you hit.

    What you're asking for is to shoot first. If it's proven in an easily repeatable scientific fashion I'll be the first to sign but until then no way.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Tell EPA to suspend bee-killing pesticides

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    you never see the shadowy side of your own solution.
    I like hearing common sense in this forum , at last !
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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