Queen Excluder or not

[Harold]

I am wondering if anyone out there uses a Queen excluder?
When i do it seems to keep out the bees.
When I don't I get a lot of brood in my honey suppers.
There has to be a better way to do this.
Thanks
Harold

[Rader Sidetrack]

You may find this link to Michaels Bush's site useful:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesulbn.htm

[ralittlefield]

How many and what size boxes are you using for brood?

[Harold]

I am using 2 deeps for hive bodies and shallows for honey suppers.
Harold

[ralittlefield]

I use a similar set up and do not see brood in my supers. I do not use queen excluders.

One more thing that comes to mind is possibly you have supers on too early?

[Harold]

That could be my problem .I put them on before the blackberry's bloom.
Thanks.
Harold

[Roland]

This subject has been covered in a previous thread, you may wish to search for it. that said:

We use a single deep brood chamber, deep supers, an excluder, and see no evidence that the bees are reluctant to cross it. It helps however, to have strong hives. i can not imagine not using one.

Crazy Roland

[kbee]

I use excluders on all my hives and dont think I have any problems with honey production. If your having trouble getting the bees to cross the excluder you can wait a couple days for them to stat working the supers then put it on. I got tired of haveing brood in the honey supers and also wax moths were more of a problem in stored honey supers if they have had brood in them

[psfred]

If you are having problems with brood in your honey supers, a queen excluder will help. However, you must really use drawn comb above the excluder, at least to start, or the bees can be reluctant to cross it to draw foundation.

Is that brood mostly (or all) drone? If so, I would suggest a couple foundationless frames toward the outside of the bottom box. The bees will draw a bunch of drone comb, and raise drones there when they want them (typically early spring when they make a large crop and then sporadically through the rest of the summer) and they will not build drone comb in the honey supers. You can use the green drone comb, too -- the bees will use it for storage when they are not making drones.

Some people have much more trouble than others (or maybe I should say some bees make a lot more brood in honey supers than other). We have had only a single row, at most two, in the center of the combs in the bottom honey super, never more than that.

Peter

[MattDavey]

Roland didn't mention that he uses a main entrance directly above the excluder. This is important.

I don't usually use excluders, but have been trying TOP entrances this season and (due to discussion's with Roland) have tried using an excluder with them. The top entrance as the MAIN entrance makes a huge difference!

An excluder works much better when you have both a top AND bottom entrance. My top entrances are right at the top of the hive. Also, it may work better to start with only a top entrance a week or two before you put on the excluder, so that this is used as the main entrance.

I would recommend a bottom entrance of 1/2 inch most of the time, and no wider than 1 inch (unless you have temperatures above 35°C/95°F). I have found that bearding in hot weather has stopped, with having both entrances. The fanners go to the bottom entrance and draw air down through the hive and out the bottom. The evaporation from the nectar helps to cool the hive, with the wettest nectar at the top, air is drawn down. So the foragers come and go in the top entrance without having to dodge fanning bees. We've had temperatures of 40°C/104°F and looking at the top entrance, you wouldn't even think they were hot. (I did open the bottom entrance to a couple of inches on these days.)

The main thing is that the bees store less nectar in the brood nest and more above the excluder! This helps to reduce backfilling of the brood nest, therefore reducing conditions for swarm preparation as well.

Matthew Davey

[Mr.Beeman]

I plan on using one this year for honey production just to experiement with it. Last year the honey was broodless.
I do use one for swarm calls to exclude the queen(s).
I have seen on (youtube) as many as 5 queens from a single swarm. Personally, I had 2 queens in a single swarm.

[odfrank]

When I use front facing top entrances above the excluder I get mated virgins moving in the honey supers. How do you stop that?

[GaSteve]

I read somewhere that turning the QE sideways can help. There are gaps at the front and back where the queen can go through, but she normally won't because she doesn't usually venture to the very front or back of the frames. Never tried it though to see how well it works.

[Joseph Clemens]

If you're thinking of trying queen excluders, I recommend you read this POV article, queen excluders or honey excluders to discover the best way to use them.
- + - + - +
What happened to me, was that I discovered my hives were being devastatingly depopulated by local endemic desert toads. I realized that I needed to take drastic action to turn this around. I made myself some screened bottom boards (with no entrances). Next, I made some rims to use for creating upper entrances. I didn't think to add the excluders and drone/queen escape holes, until I read the POV article, referenced, above.
* ^ * ^ * ^
odfrank,
I've only had that happen, once (so far). I do leave small entrance holes in all the supers beneath the excluder -- for drones and queen use.

[schmism]

Ive used them for years now. I dont have any data not useing them.

I like not having to worry about brood in my honey supers.

I do use an upper entrance above the excluder as well as a lower entrance below it. I do think it will lead to swarming issues if you dont watch the bottom boxes and make shure they have plenty of space below the excluder.

After i have a full super of honey above it, i have removed it useing the honey super as a natural excluder. Ive been told (and somewhat experienced) that the queen will not cross the "honey barrier" to seek space above. but again, at that point you also risk swarming behavor if there isnt enough room in the brood box.(s)

[LeonardS]

I did not use queen excluders last year, and I did have brood in my honey super. Of the 10 frames in my super, I had brood in 4 of them. I found out that the bees won't leave that brood!!

[Joel]

We ran w/o excluders for 10 years then got tired of dealing with brood in honey supers since we extract several times through the year. We added supers and an upper entrance (jog the 2nd honey super back 1/4 inch) and find it works exceptionally well for us. We also like the fact the bees seem to take a little more of the late summer flow and make big bands above the cluster filling it in as brood dwindles and space opens. I think we winter better as a result of earlier season honey stores in the brood chamber.

[LeonardS]

Joel, what do you mean that you "jog the 2nd honey super back 1/4"? That wouldn't be enough to open up an entrance, so what is the purpose? Thanks for explaining this to a rookie!

[Roland]

Matt Davey said:

The main thing is that the bees store less nectar in the brood nest and more above the excluder! This helps to reduce backfilling of the brood nest, therefore reducing conditions for swarm preparation as well.


I concure.

I neglected to speak of upper entrances. We also set back every super one bee space to form upper entrances. Be sure to close them back up before fall to prevent robbing.

OdFrank - better swarm control might prevent your virgin problem, otherwise put an excluder between each box, and the next round you will know where the queen is.

Crazy Roland

[Jonathan4Bees]

try putting your queen excluder on sideways that should cut down the queen travel going up yet your workers should still go up