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  1. #21
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Jim I've heard a rumor about that. Do you have a link to a study or anything? If not, I'd like to know what is meant by viability.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Jim I've heard a rumor about that. Do you have a link to a study or anything? If not, I'd like to know what is meant by viability.
    Good questions all OT. I hesitated to make that post as I wasn't able to find any links. Dr. Pettis' presentation was "Long live the Queen? drone Layers and Supercedures". Sorry I am relying on second hand information. Perhaps someone can help me out?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,781

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    hasnt that been found of all the chem mite treatments we are or have been using
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #24
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    I hesitated to make that post as I wasn't able to find any links.
    And you just KNEW somebody would ask LOL!

    No worries. Just, I use none of the (so called) hard chemicals, except, as a last resort, amitraz. My reason for that is it is not residual it breaks down and does not stay as a permanent residue unlike the others.

    However I heard, but from an unreliable source, that it can affect queens. I would like to know if there is any truth to this, and if so is it larval, adult, drones, or what, and is it just when the strips are in, or whatever else may be useful.

    Like you I've searched this but not clever enough to find anything authoritative. DeKnow perhaps?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  5. #25
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    I would guess the affects might be pretty subtle but with all the complaints about short lived queens it certainly isn't a stretch to think that there might well be a relationship.
    Deano? Naaaaaa, he probably puts it on his toast.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #26
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    LOL, but he's a veritable little ferret at finding rare studies about the effects of chemicals.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,240

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Yeah, this one should be child's play for him.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  8. #28

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Many of the talks or papers I’ve read (going from memory…no citations) indicate that the issues are often the contaminant residues in beeswax. In particular, as I’m sure you guys know, fluvalinate and coumaphous. I also haven’t heard anything directly related to amitraz.
    This study might be of interest though.
    http://www.extension.org/pages/30844...hive-chemicals

    Who knows....maybe Dean's internet search engine is in the shop for an oil change
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
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    1,789

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    While Dean is busy you might be interested in this paper:
    http://digitalcommons.fiu.edu/cgi/vi...90&context=etd

  10. #30

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    I had 150 queens ordered for a mid March delivery from a sizeable supplier I’ve used in the past. Because of his location, he is able to have mated queens weeks before I can. In late December he told me his hives were in a major collapse and he would be unable to deliver my queens.
    I have to ask myself…what would cause such an operation wide collapse in a relatively large operation run by experienced people? And as is appropriate to this thread….how do the things that result in such a collapse affect the queens produced by them?

    When I was about 12 I went to the eye doctor. As he handed me my prescription…he laughed and said ‘son…your next prescription is going to be a seeing eye dog’. Fifty years later and I’m not quite ready for the dog but needless to say my eyesight hasn’t improved. I say all of this to explain why I’ve never produced my own queens. I simply don’t have the eyesight to graft. I just got a Jenter and have a Mann Lake graftless box on the way and expect to break them in this spring. It’ll mean a very different strategy for my nuc production but I’ve had enough of the headaches of buying queens from commercial suppliers.
    Nothing boring about keeping bees…..
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  11. #31
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Hmm.. Thats interesting, copper napthenate screwed around with the bees memory more than anything except coumaphos.

    And still some folks around my parts get their boxes treated.....
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #32
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    I hesitated to make that post as I wasn't able to find any links.
    Here's one document that mentions this relationship:
    http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/files/147887.pdf
    It doesn't report hard numbers, though. Go to page 4 and read the left column, or use a "page search" feature (Control-F on many browsers) to search for "amitraz".
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.”

  13. #33

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Hmm.. Thats interesting, copper napthenate screwed around with the bees memory more than anything except coumaphos.
    And what made that even more interesting...only a single interior surface had been treated! Can you imagine what it would have done if all of the wood surfaces inside the hive had been treated?
    Ok...got to run...honey to deliver....bees to check...and this evening a pint at the pub with some other local beekeepers. There is something to be said for winter. In spring it is all I can do to eat and drop into bed at the day's end.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #34
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    i'm seeing the other salient advantage of raising your own queens is that you get to evaluate each one's performance prior to putting her into production.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #35
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Hmm.. Thats interesting, copper napthenate screwed around with the bees memory more than anything except coumaphos.

    And still some folks around my parts get their boxes treated.....
    Yeah I have seen these studies as well. What would be of interest to me is a study showing reduced ovary size or some related measurable physical change in a queen exposed to Amitraz. I think that would be of great interest to anyone considering using Apivar or something off label.
    Come on Dean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=angi1vwUkQc
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  16. #36
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,336

    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    They had a tough time mating them last year due to weather in CA early on. So it depends on the weather out there also. If a queen has to wait to do a mating flight to long or not enough drones get out of their homes due to weather it can make for some wussy queens.
    Last edited by EastSideBuzz; 01-29-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  17. #37
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Don't people treat hives with copper nathenate? I recall a John Pluta video of him treating all his woodware with that and Diesel fuel.

  18. #38
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Yes they do. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

    (Well I would, but not my bees).
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #39
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Commercial queen survival

    Thanks Radar. The words used were "It appeared, though, that Api-Life VAR may be toxic to sperm in the spermatheca".

    Interesting but doesn't tell you much. Wonder if there's any hard numbers.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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