Need opinions on handles

[Davidnewbeeboxbuilder]

Im ganna sell cabnet joint hives this spring and i take a 3 inch piece of white pine and cut 30 degree angle on it and staple and glue them u get alot better hand on them and if u got just 2 handles migatory top beeks cant conplain because the tops are the same with so no space loss.honest opions please

[westernbeekeeper]

Can you post some photos?

[ralittlefield]

There are folks that use cleats as handles and like them.

They do add 3/4" width to each side, so folks who stack them on pallets might not care for them.

What is a cabnet joint hive?

[DonShackelford]

I attach handles like you are talking about on my hive bodies. I use a 15 degree slope on top to shed water. This year, I'm also putting that 15 degree slope on the bottom of the handle as a drip edge to shed water away from the hive body.

My hive body corners are rabbit joints glued with Liquid Nails Heavy Duty exterior grade subfloor adhesive.

[SippyBees]

Do you use staples or nails/ screws to hold the rabbit joint solid? Or do you just use the adhesive ONLY? curious.... I built all my boxes with rabbit joints.... was thinking to change over to finger joints as my boxes get flimsy quickly.. Thanks

[DonShackelford]

I use 1 1/2" galvanized narrow crown staples. Just a hunch, but my guess is that your joints loosen because the glue factor. Use an exterior grade subfloor adhesive. I buy it in the big tubes to save money. Warm it up prior to use. It is not pretty glue, doesn't wipe off clean like wood glue does, is thick , gooey, and messy to work with. Remember we're not building finish cabinetry here.
Being a natural born klutz, my boxes can and have taken a lot of abuse but are as strong as ever.

Update: My Lowes quit carrying 1 1/2" galvanized staples but still do carry 1 3/8". I see no difference in the outcome.
I use tightbond 2 for gluing frames.

[Davidnewbeeboxbuilder]

I use titebond glue and use 1 and1/2 finish nails nailed both ways.going to start using brads with heads. The handles are stapled and glued front and back nailed.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Davidnewboxbuilder... If you are going to sell boxes you really need to go to the commercial type handles. I know there are those who say the glued handles are better, and maybe they are, but, they are not the industry standard, and when people come to buy your product, the first thing they will notice is the handles.

Same with rabbet joint vrs box joint. I used rabbet joints for 35 years. They are absolutely acceptable and I never had a problem, but, when I started selling boxes, I had to go to the finger joint. First question customers would ask is, "Are these boxes homemade or commercial?" Some how people equate cleats and rabbet joints with homemade, and never question when the handles are "D" shape and the joints are finger joints.

There are several good uTube videos on how to make commercial looking hand holds, including one I posted at..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWRjpJ5f0wr From there you can view other ways of cutting the commercial looking handles. Choose the one that works best for you.

cchoganjr

[minz]

I just got done with 11 hives and 7 shallows and did the dato hand holds because of the time savings. I went back and cut the D hand holds under the dato’s in the deeps. After all the work I put in plaining, cutting finger joints and building an assembly jig the dato handle made the entire project look ‘home made’.
The other thing that I did was not to sand the fingers off completely. I usually put them on the belt sander some but if you take them too close the fingers don’t show. Now I do the short side to a clean surface but let the long sides stand proud. Pictures say it all:
I use 2 ½” deck screws through the long sides and titebond II
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/...z/DSCF4261.jpg
Yeah they look like crap but the paint was such a great deal I could not pass.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/...z/DSCF4259.jpg

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.

If someone said those boxes would not be 100% usable, he must be holding an empty glass of Jim Beam.

If you think they look too bad to use, I will forward an address and you can ship them to me. My bees won't care.

cchoganjr

[Ledge]

Minz, I see your radial arm saw in the background of the second picture. I have one that looks very similar to it. If they are the same model, mine hada recall on it. I found it somewhere on line. It was well worth the effort, because they send you not only new guards, but also a new table.

[jmgi]

For my own boxes that I make, I use a dado blade, it takes some set up on the table saw and a jig that I made to do it. I don't think using screwed and glued on handles is any quicker if you do it right and cut angles on the top and bottom of the handle, and then after all that you don't have a box with standard grips which does have the homemade look to many people, even though it can be a strong handle. If you wanted to shove the hives tight together for some reason you can't do it. It creates a problem for wintering if you want to put tarpaper or insulation on the hive.

I think if I was going to sell boxes, I would stick with the dado handhold, but I would use rabbet joint corners, I'm not going to say the rabbet is just as strong as the fingerjoint, but it is strong enough to not fall apart if you put it together right with the proper glue and screws/nails. John

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

jmgi.... John.. Look at the video on uTube of the jig I invented, showing how to cut the hand hold with a Skil Saw. You can make your cuts about as fast as the dado cut and you don't have to set up the dado blade. All you need is a Skil saw, (circular saw). I used a dado or router for years, but the skil saw method looks more commercial. Easy and safe. Takes less than 30 minutes to build the jig. About 30 seconds to cut the hand hold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWRjpJ5f0wr How to cut hand holds using a Circular Saw Safely.

cchoganjr

[Mr.Beeman]

I stole.... I... I mean borrowed Cleo's jig idea for the circular saw hand holds. It's a real nice jig set up and is rather quick with a little practice.

[DonShackelford]

Great video Cleo, best solution I've seen for hand holds.

I'll have to stick with my handles though, I just like the grip they afford. I do think David has a point that they ad no extra room since they're only on the ends and the cover protrudes the same way.

I have had a few people ask me if they are "home made". I just say yes, they are built to commercial specifications in my shop, and will interchange with any standard equipment.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

DonShackleford....Agreed... and you are 100% correct. Some people like the glued on cleats, some like the "D" shape with concave cut, others, like me, likes a slightly convex cut on the "D" shape handles. I say, use what ever you like best. This is no one solution. There is no right or wrong, as long as the boxes meet standard inside dimensions.

cchoganjr

[jmgi]

Cleo, I really like that! Shouldn't be too hard making the jig. Do you use any particular type of blade for the circular saw other than a sharp one? Thanks, John.

[minz]

I like the look of the boxes, the color is exactly the color of dog poop, thus the comment (or bee poop). I did a kirf down the center to make the deeps to divided deeps (now I need a bottom board plan).
It is Cleo’s jig for my D handles, I borrow all my good ideas and jigs from this site! I do end up burning the handles some so a suggestion on a better blade would be nice (using a carbide tip Dewalt).
Ledge, I guess I need to watch what is in the background of my pictures, My $25 radial arm saw does have the recall, I looked it up and they want $100 for the kit. I was not clear if they return the $100 when they get their parts or not.
BTW, for the dato hand holds the stop goes in front of the blade not behind. Man does the wood come off the table saw!

[DBeeCooper]

The boxes with cleats will have a better R-value than those with concave hand holds. Granted, not much, but better. I've seen IR photos of hives on here before and you can see the heat "leaking" from the concave handholds.

[DC Bees]

Here is a plan for screened bottom boards.
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/botto...ottomboard.htm