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  1. #101
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
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    1,494

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ....or perhaps just a sign claiming the hives contain gps chips, well..... do ya feel lucky?
    Well, I found something that would do it:
    http://www.amazon.com/Tagg-The-Pet-T.../dp/B0077I42S4

    $80, but you would need a bunch of them. Plus the data plan is $8 a month, and you need to somehow keep it charged up. I don't see how that is affordable.

    You could put one or two in your hives, but you would need to be diligent about checking the locations as I think it would be pretty easy for a thief to find them and attach it to a truck at a rest stop.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,096

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    The problem with any kind of locator device to track a stolen hive is electrical power. A cell phone, GPS or LoJack type device will only work as long as the unit has power. How are you going to consistently recharge the device batteries?

    You could put an RFID device into a hive. This would effectively be the same as a "microchipped" dog or cat. These devices have no requirement for regular power, so they would last a long time - i.e. the life of your pet. But, the are passive devices and only transmit an ID when they are within the range of a "powered" transmitter/reader, and that range is measured in feet, not miles. So if you knew where to find a stolen hive, the reader could prove that it is indeed yours. But it won't help you find the hive if you don't already know where to look.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Raymond, Mississippi, USA
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    I would think the first question a person must ask themselves is HOW MUCH IS YOUR 50 HIVES in an outyard worth to you? Then ask yourself how likely you think someone would want to take said worth from you since you are not there all the time watching it. $8/ month seems small for a relatively high degree of security for 50 x $200 = $10,000 (conservative) investment sitting out in the open, at least to ME I am going to make that investment... especially considering the activities in my area. That small pet tracker could be sealed into a frame inside a hive.... all frames branded... all boxes branded..... trail camera hidden somewhere nearby... and signs stating that these electronic devices ARE and WILL be used to prosecute to the full extent of the law.
    If someone STILL wants to take their chances... I think I have a relatively good chance of getting my stuff back or at least being able to sue/ prosecute SOMEONE for my loss. I am estimating <$300/ out yard for this feeling of security... for me is worth it.
    ANYTHING you use to protect your investment is better than "hoping" it won't happen to you.
    FWIW

  4. #104
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,494

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    No doubt. But I would think that you would have to check on the location often as someone that would take your boxes, particularly if they are branded, would likely swap out the woodenware. And if you were doing that you would probably notice the propolized transmitter in one of the hives. Like Radar said, the problem would be ensuring power to the device.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Raymond, Mississippi, USA
    Posts
    177

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Don't know how long the battery lasts... haven't really looked in depth at the tag yet... but I will replace the batt's as often as I need to ... if that is what it takes. As for someone swapping out all the frames or whatever... remember, they are in the process of STEALING something... I do not think they have the time to go through 50 hives frame by frame... while at the same time wondering if anyone is seeing them. At least I am counting on that.
    I guess there is NOTHING guaranteed... but I believe that I will have done the best I can to protect myself from bad people. In a yard with 50 hives... doubles... probably with at least 1 super... will give 'em 1500 frames to examine to be sure they get ALL the trackers. If you are robbing someone, would you have time to go through 50 hives by hand? Thats a lot of time for the trail cam to exhaust it's 1000 pic memory while they are doing it... or... maybe there are 2 cams?? Hmmmm Guess thats something the thieves will have to consider before they start their work....
    Ehhh... well... am just trying to make myself feel better I guess....

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    960

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    The information discussed here has some elements of my design (not all of it), which is still under development. I can't talk about it, or I will lose a significant chunk of the market. This has significant uses far outside just beehives, and hence a huge financial reward to risk ratio. At the present time, the hidden metal tag combined with massive branding is the economical answer for beekeepers. Brand your name or company name and phone number onto your hives, your home state and county - great ideas! I like the UPC code / credit card idea. Good discussion, guys! How about a 50-state bulletin board for stolen bee equipment and we all have the option to pay a few bucks into a communal reward fund?

    For those of y'all designing your own, consider a small lithium battery on a signal detector circuit at extremely low draw that trips a somewhat higher current circuit that "answers back" with an intermittent transmitted signal. You own the "finder device" which is extremely sensitive, possibly hooked up to the internet, anyone owning such a device can find your hives for you (and can get the reward!!!). It can be done for fairly cheap once the scale of production is such that a company can afford a microcircuit design to be produced. I'm sure the electronics whiz kids can come up with better ideas than mine - just a place to start.

    Now, remember - you catch the culprit, let the sheriff handle it! Don't take justice into your own hands and get your own backside in a sling, or worse yet a bullet hole in yer hyde. One class in administration of justice explaining elements of evidence and elements of arrest would convince you of this....Photograph the bugger, get the license plate, write it down along with a description of him/her/them, date time and location.

    Anyone with a background in law may wish to write a proposal for any legislation such technology could require - I'd really like to see a solid legal procedure in a pamphlet that comes with the unit. I like the idea of, "Just buy it, install it, and we'll take care of the rest."

    RichardsonTX - It can be economical to tag frames if you just make it part of the process from the get-go. A hidden drill hole in a top bar and an insertion tool with a tag loader or dispenser will do the trick. For my own, I'm hoping to combine a brander with an arbor press or drill press with a fence and a stop - brand all parts of a frame before they are assembled. Again, deterrence is better than recovery. There are still those people stupid enough to swipe them anyways, sand past your best branding efforts, and you still have them with the hidden tag.
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 02-17-2013 at 08:01 PM.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,468

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    I think the only practical way of limiting your losses is to get insurance and then let the insurance company prosecute the offender if he gets caught. Anyone running a business would have insurance for theft.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,366

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Insuring equipment in a building is one thing but both banks and insurance companies are suspicious of live bee hives either to insure or to use as collateral as they have neither a title nor a permanent physical address plus their value is quite difficult to determine as it relates in a large part to where they are located, how much honey they have on them and what time of year it is.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,468

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    I can see where a lack of record keeping might make it tough for banks and insurance companies to accept the risk. I can't say that the insurance premium would be affordable but I do know that bee equipment has value, bees have value and honey has value so the loss there of should be insurable. It is not likely that you would be better off making a claim for the loss than if there were no loss no matter what the loss is.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Not sure what the situation is now in my country, but back when I started with bees, they could not be insured, nor would banks lend money against them.

    Makes sense I guess, hive numbers in my yards go up and down constantly, who's to say (and prove), what was there at a particular time.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,366

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Its quite likely that if you permanently maintain a given number of hives on your property that an insurance company would agree to insure them at some level. If you are going to be moving them a lot, particularly state to state dont even bother asking about insurance. The case that this thread is based on is a classic example of what I am talking about. The insurance agents first question would be an incredulous "WHERE were they stolen from?" followed by "were we informed that we were insuring property in Mississippi?"
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,375

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    My agent didn't want to insure my NY bees when I bought them, but I guess I whined enough and they've always been fair with me. The company insures many farms in Vermont, and I convinced them that it would be like having my cows loose on the neighbor's field...and the fence line was the state line.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,468

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    These are the lines along which I was thinking ... Livestock and crop insurance. I doubt if you can insure bees against dying but I would think it is possible to insure them against theft.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    960

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Yes insurance would help, but insurance is emphatically NOT the equivalent of a healthy apiary. It takes a 2-year growth cycle to get going again (longer for some types of bees or if you use Brother Adam's methods, let alone if there are any bad years ahead), and no insurance company is going to pay you for your effort and hard work, only the value of the bees and equipment. What I'm saying is that the SETBACK is not covered. There is no substitute for branding to keep your hives yours!

    I think bee thieves should be given sentences of forced servitude for the 'keeper they stole from, and made to pay back triple (1x in cash and 2x in hives, or however the victim wishes)! If he gets injured stealing your bees, he pays the doctor and you! (Forgive my pontificating - I have too many cops in the family.)

    Again, I think a national registry of beekeeper identification numbers and a stolen hive hotline / bulletin board would actually help and eventually make bee rustling a rarity. The border patrol should know that bees can't cross our borders except through the national bee lab to an isolation island for the 2-year quarantine period.
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 02-19-2013 at 01:07 PM.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NAVAJO, ARIZONA USA
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Dont count on insurance. I have been fighting mine just to get the equipment covered.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    960

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    More than adequately covering my point. They are not in the business of giving money away to claimants. Brand your hives, people!

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    A few years ago, GPS units in frames were offered for sale.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/arch.../t-234190.html

    I don't remember seeing them in the catalogs in the last couple of years.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,468

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Yes insurance would help, but insurance is emphatically NOT the equivalent of a healthy apiary.
    Neither is catching the perpetrator. He will go to jail which you have to support and you will get nothing in return unless the bees and equipment are still around. The most depressing thing I find about this thread is the thief is a bee keeper.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Southbury, CT
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Might be a crime ring. I know there were several large number hive thefts last year in GA. One producer lost 100 hives from a single location. Hard to believe somebody can pull a tractor trailer load of bees out of an area and nobody see a thing.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,468

    Default Re: Hives stolen looking for help

    Quote Originally Posted by keeper View Post
    Hard to believe somebody can pull a tractor trailer load of bees out of an area and nobody see a thing.
    Almost as hard to believe one would be filled with weed coming form Mexico heading for NY that belongs to a medical manufacturer. If it is common to move large numbers of hives with a tractor trailer why would anyone notice?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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