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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
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    2,668

    Default CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    I note in the recently published CNG (Certified Naturally Grown) standards there is a minimum hive stand height requirement of six inches.

    I'm curious what the benefits are of such a minimum for beekeepers who use solid bottom boards. I have several yards where the hives are on pallets year round and others where I use the Mike Palmer inspired 2x4 stand. As I am in black bear country my yards are surrounded by electric fences - I use a netting which also keeps out critters like racoons and skunks.

    I intend to ask the CNG folks for the logic behind the standard, but I haven't done that yet.

  2. #2

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    My hives were mounted on 4x4s (only 3.5 inches). It enabled me to move heavy hives by myself using a handtruck. I wrote and asked the same question. I got what I considered an absolutely ridiculous answer about small animals being unwilling to expose their undersides at a hive entrance. I have no idea who dreamt that one up. I needed to be CNG to sell at a nice, active local farmers' market. So I removed the 4x4s and put all of my hives on cinderblocks....and now it requires two people to move one. And then there was the issue of screened bottom boards....don't even get me started.
    If it weren't for that farmers' market....and truth be told I may let it lapse anyway.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Coopersville, Michigan
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    6 inches off the ground prevents larger commercial guys from being CNG because pallets are lower than that, whether or not their other practices would apply. I assuming here, but my guess is it's a political thing to restrict who can join. I understand the need for certifications, but hate the beauracracy and political manuevering that pretty much makes them next to worthless as anything but an advertising gimick in the end.

  4. #4

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    that pretty much makes them next to worthless as anything but an advertising gimick in the end.
    Yes.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,635

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    So I removed the 4x4s and put all of my hives on cinderblocks....and now it requires two people to move one.
    I think you may be able to still use a handtruck. You could space out the cinderblocks to mimic the placement of the former 4x4s. Then make a riser that sits on the handtruck platform sized to slip under the hives while the riser is on the handtruck, but still lift the hives when the truck is tilted back. If you are concerned about the riser slipping, ratchet strap it to the truck.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  6. #6

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    I think you may be able to still use a handtruck.
    Your idea does have merit. First though, adding a riser will make the entire thing less stable...and on uneven ground that can be an issue.One additional complication is the use of screened bottoms. I don't like them...for a number of reasons..... but when I initially signed on with CNG they were required. And if you had solids...you were required to convert 20 percent each year. I bit the bullet and converted about half the first season....then, of course, CNG changed the rule and screened bottoms were no longer 'required'. Anyway having to make an extended tongue and riser that will bridge the entire bottom....is just not on my radar....yet.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,301

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Another ridicules standard... all mine are on 2 bys. What makes them naturally grown if they are 6" instead of 3 1/2" off the ground?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Coopersville, Michigan
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    What makes them naturally grown if they are 6" instead of 3 1/2" off the ground?
    Apparently another 2 1/2" makes them more natural

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,635

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    The idea behind the higher hive stand is to make skunks and other predators stretch higher, and expose their [apparently] more vulnerable bellies to stings.

    Elevating the hives on blocks or stands may help by making the skunk’s belly vulnerable to stings.

    Full document here:
    http://www.nj.gov/agriculture/divisi...ohoneybees.pdf
    Side note: The Field Guide linked above was published by Penn State University, the same institution offering the $200 online beekeeping classes that was the topic of an earlier thread.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #10

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    'may help' comes up a bit short on evidence to invoke such a restrictive policy. After all....wouldn't their mouths also be a bit vulnerable to stings?
    I'm betting on the idea that it excludes palletized hives....
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,529

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    ...and sleeping in the apiary with an bazooka 'may help' prevent a bear from getting the hives. Why isn't this required?

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,529

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Pallets are free. Pallets are easy to stack. Pallets are easy to move even when they are stacked. There are few (if any) beekeepers that move hives by the pallet that would even begin to qualify for CNG status for other reasons. Stationary beekeepers that use pallets would have no trouble at all stacking them (remember, they are free).

    deknow
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  13. #13

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ...and sleeping in the apiary with an bazooka
    Too twentieth century. But.....an RPG or Stinger...those would work!
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    965

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    deleted by author

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,529

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Beregondo View Post
    deleted by author
    ...come to think of it, if I were an elementary school student, my own post would probably land me in 'counseling' these days.
    The irony is free. It's the sarcasm you are paying for....ironically.
    -Felicity Jones in "Chalet Girl"

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,292

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    CNG - cute, almost all of my hives have no entrances where the bottom boards are. All of my entrances are at the upper edges of supers, not the bottom edges, though even a first level upper entrance could have the bottom of the next super above immediately adjacent to it. Only single super hive entrances would be without an adjacent super bottom.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,301

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    If the object is to put the entrances at a natural height, then I think they should be 16 feet or so off the ground... that's what the bees seem to prefer... but it's a bit hard on the beekeepers...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,077

    Default Re: CNG- Hive Stand Height Requirement

    The only thing similar I've ever heard of, is getting the hives up at least a foot so skunks have to expose their underbelly when eating bees at night. Can't imagine why naturally grown would care if critters are eating you're bees.
    Dan

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