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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,406

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    Still the Mountain Camp Method is good Insurance and it is cheaper than buying Bee's.
    So the mountain camp method does two things. It gives them emergency feed and it absorbs moisture. I do recommend using inverted sugar or Dri-vert sugar and not granulated sugar. They just take that out unless it is wet then they will eat it.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    May I ask what invert sugar is? I have not done much dry feeding, and I am wondering what is meant by "invert sugar".

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,583

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    May I ask what invert sugar is?
    Domino Sugar has a lot of useful info about sugars on their website:

    Standardized inverts made from pure cane sugar by a process that converts sucrose into a combination of fructose and dextrose sugars, resulting in a characteristically unique sweetener system. These sugars have significantly different characteristics than sucrose, corn syrup combinations, or other sugars, and offer a lighter flavor, increased moisture retention in fresh baked goods, improved crust color, solubility, and enhanced shelf life.

    More here:
    http://www.dominospecialtyingredient...90&rowId=11412
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Haymarket, Virginia
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Is this recipe for invert sugar (scroll down a little) any good for bees? Cream of Tartar and Citric acid are easily obtainable.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,593

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Research on using Cream of tarter and Citric acid to make invert sugar and feeding it to bees has shown it shortens the lives of the bees. It still seems to be a popular thing to do though...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Haymarket, Virginia
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Research on using Cream of tarter and Citric acid to make invert sugar and feeding it to bees has shown it shortens the lives of the bees. It still seems to be a popular thing to do though...
    What's the advantage of using invert sugar if it has this side-effect? Longer shelf life? Less available water? Is it simply that shortening the lives of (longer-lived) winter bees doesn't have the impact that it would have on spring/summer bees?

    Not trying to start any arguments, just curious what's the justification of using invert sugar if it's detrimental to bee longevity.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    LaGrange; Oldham County; Kentucky
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    Please realize that if you adequately prepare your bees in the fall you should not have any emergencies that require the Mountain Camp Method. Emergencies are something to be avoided... not planned to have them occur.
    Newbies dont need to be scolded; I had a split followed by a horrible drought, this being my first year I had no resources to pull from. SO YES, *gasp* I AM FEEDING. Doesn't make me a bad beek.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,165

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Ma'am your doing fine. Please ignore the congenitally righteous who know what is best for us all. Every single one of my colonies have Mountain camp sugar on them including strong ones that might not need it. You see I have plans to keep bees in the spring and one can't do that unless one has bees. Rational people keep bees to produce honey and it is not a crime to take some. By numbers, the vast majority of bees in the blinkin country each May were raised on man supplied feed! Doesn't sound all that lethal to me. Would it be better if the bees had honey? Of course. But if they ain't go it--don't sweat it--and feed them what you have.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cattaraugus,New York, USA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Melanie, no worries
    Dont take his statement personally. We all understand that there are issues that are out of the beekeepers control, such as the weather. You are correct, that doesn't make you a bad beekeeper. By feeding your bees, that makes you a smart beekeeper. Your hive that you help get through winter can be split into 2 or more hives in the spring, and then you may be able to get more than 1 crop of honey off of your hives, if every thing goes right.
    Most beekeepers feed their bees, whether it is emergency feeding in the winter, or stimulative feeding in the spring, feeding is feeding. We are putting food resources into the hive, when the bees didnt collect it themselves. I think that Andrew was more likely aiming his comment at those folks that take every drop of honey off in the fall, and then dont know why they dont have any bees alive come spring time.
    Allegany Mtn. Bee Farm
    Quality Queens and Honey from Western New York

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,593

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    >What's the advantage of using invert sugar if it has this side-effect? Longer shelf life? Less available water? Is it simply that shortening the lives of (longer-lived) winter bees doesn't have the impact that it would have on spring/summer bees?

    Bees prefer invert sugar. Invert sugar crystallizes less. Bees have to invert sugar that is not inverted by making enzymes. The research on shortening their lives is fairly recent (the last couple of decades maybe, but it's been around at least a decade) and not commonly known. People are slow to change. (not all a bad thing)
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Peace River, AB Canada
    Posts
    456

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    I don't think Andrew was scolding anyone but rather giving good advice. Hives should go into winter with twenty pounds of feed over the minimum required for your location. That is the emergency feed provided early so there is no winter stress to the colony or beekeeper.
    This is obviously going to be hard for a newbie to determine since they don't have the experience of past winters to draw from.
    Cold regions need 60-90 pounds of feed.
    Temporate regions need 30-60 lbs.
    Warm regions need 15-30 lbs.
    Now if in some years the minimum plus 20 lbs. is still not enough then emergency feeding is the right thing to do.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Athens, greece
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    A little off topic, but what is the analogy between lbs and pounds?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,165

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    LB is shorthand for a pound. I have often been curious about the origin of this, I will have to research it.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,583

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    "lbs" is an abbreviation for "pounds". No idea why it not something like "pds".

    EDIT: here's why ...
    The form lb is actually an abbreviation of the Latin word libra, which could mean a pound, itself a shortened form of the full expression, libra pondo, “pound weight”. The second word of this phrase, by the way, is the origin of the English pound.
    http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pou1.htm
    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 01-25-2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: update with explanation
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,960

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Forgive me for keeping an older thread alive but I feel compelled to offer this message:

    If your bees are starving or in danger of starving there is nothing wrong with feeding them - and the Mountain Camp Method is a perfectly good way to do so.

    What I was talking about earlier is more a criticism of the mind set that says you have to feed bees in the winter time.

    It is my belief, and practice, that hives adequately prepared for winter will generally NOT require emergency winter feeding.

    As much as anything this is really a case of all bee keeping being local. It was -8 F at my house the other night and I have no intention of unstrapping and unwrapping the hives now to feed. Even if it is needed. If I did my job in the fall they won't need it, and if they are starving now after proper fall preparation I don't want their genetics in my bee yards. Following what I think is good advice from Beekeepers I respect, I no longer just heft hives to gauge stores in the fall. I inspect the hive and see what the stores situation is. Every hive gets put on a scale to see if the total weight is where I want it to be, and supplemental feed is provided to get the hives up to the desired weight (as needed.) While some experienced beekeepers can judge winter stores by heft, I can't, and I believe it is a disservice to new beekeepers to teach them hefting as the sole method of determining adequate stores.

    When I check the hives and start to get ready for spring in the Apiary in February or March I tend to feed commercially prepared fondant instead of straight sugar, if stores seem iffy. It is not a given that each hive will get Fondant. My bees have plenty of natural pollen available to them both in the fall and early spring so I don't feed pollen substitute.

    It may seem controversial to hold this view, but for me in my location (Coastal Downeast Maine) it works.

    My bees are not pets and I do not treat them as such. They are stock. I prefer them live.

    Will my practices work for all beekeepers in all locations? I highly doubt it. But I see nothing wrong with the basic strategy.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,603

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    Will my practices work for all beekeepers in all locations? I highly doubt it. But I see nothing wrong with the basic strategy.
    No, but it will for beekeepers that have fall flows and cold winters. Good post Andrew! I tend to agree that there are far too many hives being fed that don't need to be if proper management were practiced.
    Regards, Barry

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    3,560

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    Fall flow? What's that? I'm beginning to wonder if a spring flow is even in the cards.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    1,143

    Default Re: Mountain Camp Method;

    That is the flow between mite build up and hive collapse.

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