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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    IG, Slovenia
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    21

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by Bee Bliss View Post
    I am curious why some beeks seem to think that a landowner/farmer doesn't have any rights and seems to be left out of the equation? (Not talking about going against contracts) What about land that is sold or inherited by family? What about the fact that there can be multiple owners all with their own acreage? Farmer A can have hives and Farmer B cannot? Messing with someone else's property (bees and equipment or even the land) to cause damage and loss of bees is dishonest and another form of stealing. That's what it boils down to. Be gentle.....
    Quite. There is thin line between justice and madness. I don't know what i would do if someone threatened my bees.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
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    782

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    I'd have to agree with BB. Been thinking of chiming in but kind of bit my tongue.

    I recall as a teenager watching a couple of movies that had something to do with inner-city street gangs. I thought then and still do that the idea of "my turf" is ridiculous. It's not "your turf". A beekeeper, commercial or otherwise, can sign a contract with whoever he wishes to place bees on that farmer's property. If the contract gives him exclusivity, then OK, no one else may place hives on THAT PROPERTY. But what if I want to put hives in across the street that is someone else's property? Is that the "turf" of the first beek? I call BS. If it looks like a good place to put my bees and that property owner gives his permission, I'll go for it. Now, in making the determination that it is or is not a good location, I will obviously take into account known existing apiaries in the area. (which is one reason I wish states would have a site where you could identify locations of current apiaries.) Existence of another apiary would greatly diminish the attractiveness of an area. Even so, if the amount of forage is sufficient for a thousand colonies and a commercial beek has 200 in that area, then I am not going to pass up the opportunity to put in my dozen or so hives. I'll likely also take the opportunity to double the number of swarm traps.

    I'm sure I am about to get stuff thrown at me and take some of the flak off Bee Bliss. That's OK. I'm thick-skinned.

    -james

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    IG, Slovenia
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    21

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiebooks View Post
    I'm thick-skinned.

    -james
    That must come in handy with beekeeping .

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,306

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGhost View Post
    it could get the interest of all kinds of viewers, put the word out about beekeeping and make package producers and nuc suppliers and bee supply companies RICH!!
    Please, the only people getting rich are the producers, the actors get famous (usually short lived). Ask Dave Yuuuup.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #45
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    9,306

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    Don't jump or steal another beeks yards!!!!!!!!!
    How does one do that? Don't you have contracts with the land owners and if the land owner chooses someone else what recourse do you have?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,306

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Turf wars happen. I imagine in all industries.
    Mafia, maybe. In a free market capitalistic society? Isn't that competition, normal business practice?

    If commercial beeks want protected areas they should form an association and fight for legislation and registration for their behalf. Oh yeah, they should pay for it also.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,776

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Brian, w/ only your home yd and limited number of yrs beekeeping you don't really know the etiquette of outyards amongst commercial beekeepers.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
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    1,387

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but, it looks like you are planning on setting 20 hives in or adjacent to an almond grove perminently. Is that right?
    Nope, not correct. The farmers almond orchards are probably atleast 10 miles or so away, on the South side of town. Where I am putting my hives is on a levy of a hyacinth choked slough. As the bee flies there are alfalpha fields, corn, wild black berries and a safflower field, plus wild flowers and such in the unfarmed areas. I currently only have 6 hives as of now. The most I will have in this area is 20, basically what I can fit on my 16' trailer. If I did do pollination some year, it would be for a small farmer, something like 10-15 acres. Im not hanging with the big boys.

    I talked to the farmer again today to see if I could get the beekeepers name that puts his hives on his place and then I called and left a message with the people. The farmer said he was going to put him on another 450 acre piece of property far from where I am anyhow, but to show respect, I called the beekeeper anyhow.

    Waiting back on the phone call now.
    Coyote Creek Bees

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,328

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    How does one do that? Don't you have contracts with the land owners and if the land owner chooses someone else what recourse do you have?
    There is commercial beekeeping and there is hobbyist beekeeping. If you enter the ranks of the former you will surely hear of incidents like Logger stated if you listen attentively.

    This thread started was by a guy who is small and has ambitions to grow. No one has a problem with that especially myself since I started with one swarm.

    As logger recapped " all the good bee country is long taken". I just wanted to give beeghost a realistic picture as he will find out soon enough considering his location. I ain't deaf. There are many yards in his area that are third generation. (Not mine by the way) Some have been used for over 100 years by the same family or string of beekeepers from buyouts.

    Yards get utilized to the max if not beyond in all good bee country. The quantity placed per yard varies depending on the conditions each year. When someone steps on top of another yard its just like putting to many cows on one pasture. Bees are no different in that respect. It caused range wars in the old west and is still more prevalent in the bee industry today than most folks openly acknowledge.

    The theory is actually pretty simple if you think about it. Yard jumpers cost money. Feed, either by flower or purchased from Mann lake is not free. When expenses increase people get nervous. When people get nervous they usually act accordingly. Therefore the prudent don't make people nervous if they dont want to get nervous themselves. BEE RESPECTFUL. or as other have said here "stay within the etiquette of outyards"

    I don't jump on my neighbors yards and they know I expect the same. With 50, 000 hives based within 40 miles of myself with almost every outfit having been run over 30 years if not way longer we keep it that simple.

    If Beeghost doesn't learn anything else from this thread he might want to consider: "Staying to yourself but helping each other out tends to work out quite well". Talking with the landowner as well as the other beeks on the place is a very good idea. Thats if you heed the "advice" your given. If you hear nothing back I would not move in.

    North of me, up towards logger( wont say how far) there's an outfit who is now putting 250+ hives in many a yard where once he barely had thirty long ago. Its a feed mill operation currently. Since his dad was in the business he knows that if he moves on top of someone else its going to easily cost him more than he will gain. Smart move cause I know the guys around him will quickly let him know if he strays.

    A couple of years back there was an ad or article in the ABJ about someones stack yard getting toasted while in the almonds or shortly thereafter in the Bakersfield area.The people pleaded ignorance. When I read the article I knew just like everyone other experienced "old" timer in this business that the "victim" who was here for the almond gold rush and most likely did something they should not have and got busted as a result. My guess is they "stole" someones space either ignorantly or on purpose.

    You may think it may be different where your from but that's not likely as heard from the behind the scene stories I hear around the country. That's if you eavesdrop at the right location.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
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    1,387

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey-4-All View Post
    There are many yards in his area that are third generation. (Not mine by the way) Some have been used for over 100 years by the same family or string of beekeepers from buyouts.
    Interesting to know. I have driven all over a lot of my area both in a truck and by boat and have seen a few different beekeepers hives over the last year. I have also seen the same yellow hives doing different pollinating contracts on what I think is peppers, but not sure. There is what appears to be a large yard probably at least 6-7 miles NW of where I will be.
    Coyote Creek Bees

  11. #51
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,306

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Brian, w/ only your home yd and limited number of yrs beekeeping you don't really know the etiquette of outyards amongst commercial beekeepers.
    You are absolutely right Mark. But I do know that taking things in your own hands is criminal. Be it drug dealing, beekeeping or prostitution. Are you lumping commercial beekeeping in the category of thugs?
    Reading many post here on Beesource I get the impression commercial beekeeping in the US is declining. What is wrong with new blood? How does somebody with 20 hives hurt someone with 1000 hives?
    If it is all about hard labor and expertise, wouldn't you just laugh at them?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,299

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Locations are a beemans most important asset. You can always get more bees, but good locations are hard to get and keep.I hate losing yards worse than anything.

    That said , it sounds like you are on the right track with this, BeeGhost. Best of luck to you!

  13. #53
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Livermore, CA
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    1,387

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Thanks Mike!
    Coyote Creek Bees

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,776

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGhost View Post
    Nope, not correct. The farmers almond orchards are probably atleast 10 miles or so away, on the South side of town. Where I am putting my hives is on a levy of a hyacinth choked slough. As the bee flies there are alfalpha fields, corn, wild black berries and a safflower field, plus wild flowers and such in the unfarmed areas. I currently only have 6 hives as of now. The most I will have in this area is 20, basically what I can fit on my 16' trailer. If I did do pollination some year, it would be for a small farmer, something like 10-15 acres. Im not hanging with the big boys.

    I talked to the farmer again today to see if I could get the beekeepers name that puts his hives on his place and then I called and left a message with the people. The farmer said he was going to put him on another 450 acre piece of property far from where I am anyhow, but to show respect, I called the beekeeper anyhow.

    Waiting back on the phone call now.
    Thanks. I was pretty sure I misunderstood your details. It sounds to me like you are going about this in a cautious and respectful manner.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,671

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    If we go WAAAAAy back, before Sulfa was invented for AFB, it was very important to keep all beeyards 4 miles apart to prevent transference of disease. The only cure at that time was fire.
    This helped to establish the idea of 'Turf" in many of the Oldtimer's mind, and is often still alive today.

    Crazy Roland

  16. #56
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    May 2011
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    Livermore, CA
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    1,387

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Thanks Mark, I don't want to ruffle any feathers of fellow beekeepers, especially those who's living depends on the little insects.
    Coyote Creek Bees

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,776

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    If we go WAAAAAy back, before Sulfa was invented for AFB, it was very important to keep all beeyards 4 miles apart to prevent transference of disease. The only cure at that time was fire.
    This helped to establish the idea of 'Turf" in many of the Oldtimer's mind, and is often still alive today.

    Crazy Roland
    Good perspective Roland.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Reading many post here on Beesource I get the impression commercial beekeeping in the US is declining.
    I'm willing to bet it's the amount of beekeepers that's declining not hive numbers. Agriculture is/has turned into big business. Small guys really aren't encouraged to grow, as new laws and regulations come into effect the small or starter beek who can't afford to build or maintain gov approved honey houses etc. fall by the wayside. The big guys have to keep getting bigger and the small guys have to try and jump the gap.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,776

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    Both doc, both. More hives in fewer hands and a decline in the total number. Also more small scale beekeepers and sideliners. And, because of our increasing population less available land to put apiaries on.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,671

    Default Re: Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/co

    I don't know about LESS beekeepers???? There are alot more 1-5 hive beekeepers in the southern part of our territory, and also alot more AFB. Coincidence?

    Crazy Roland

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