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Has anyone ever had a confontation with another beekeeper, especially sideline/comm ?

23K views 64 replies 29 participants last post by  bigbill 
#1 ·
Just curious what kind of "turf wars" happen between commercial or sideliner beekeepers! Also, how about under cutting prices to get pollination contracts?
Just looking for some good stories whether you experienced it or have heard a good story on what happened to another beekeeper!
 
#2 ·
The only thing that I have was a local beek called me a liar. He was asking for information on wiring frames and using a car battery to melt the wire into the foundation. I told him that I did not know how to do it because I have always used fishing line...even 20 years ago.
To make a short story shorter...he said that I was lying to him and I did not want to help him. He said he has never heard of fishing line in a hive.
 
#4 ·
Goldprospector, I thought using fishing line was something new, I guess I was wrong.:)Do you use it for foundationless or with foundation if foundationless how do you run the line.I started to use it last year and found that the comb will sag when turned on it's side.
 
#5 ·
When I was starting out I didn't know anyone into bees and I called a commercial beek near me I asked him if I could buy 4 queens or if he new were I could get some . He then bragged how he just bought 300 queens the day before and I told him if could sell me some and he said no and then I asked him were I could buy them and he just told me that no and to not bother him any more
 
#6 ·
In the past in California range wars, whole yards have been burned, hives picked up and unloaded in the freeway divider area, lids flipped off before a rainstorm, hives used for target practice, hives knocked over,hives sprayed with Raid, nails dumped in the road to the yard. I dont know if anyone was ever shot, but it would not surprise me.
 
#7 ·
When I started beekeeping in 1972, I approached a commercial beek for a ride along. This turned into a part time job. He used me like a rented mule, got me stung til I looked like a woodtick and payed me very little. But I did meet people and learned what to buy and where to source both equipment and bees. I found that community of commercial guys to be just like everyone else. A couple cheated me, some mentored me and one moved into the area I was trying to fill with my own commercial operation around Lansford ND. Just sometimes curious if it is one affable commercial guy who is a regular here. BUT, I digress! People mostly treat you as you treat them.
 
#8 ·
Interesting. We had a couple people butt heads (almost literally) in a recent bee meeting. Beekeeping attracts all folks and that means it attracts all types of folks. Just like anything else. Even customers - as I take bees out of houses. Most were great, but I got this one guy.... he didn't want to do it right from the start, and I've been back at his house half a dozen times. He's recently widowed so I think he just has too much time on his hands, so I'm cutting him a break.

On the other hand, I have a customer that won't return my calls, emails, or send my check. There was this awful situation where his contractor gave me the wrong age of the house, and the history on the hive, so I approached it from the angle based on his info. Gave him a written invoice, so when we had to change it when it was in the wall, I told him I'd keep the same price, but he had to drywall the opening. He was sticking to what I wrote, not our conversation and wanted a discount on the bill because his guy had to do drywall. My mistake for not getting the change order and approval in writing, but I thought he would appreciate the fact that I came out on the weekend to help him out. Now, it doesn't look like I'm even getting paid on the discounted job. However, his company manages over 400 old houses in the Richmond area. I can't wait until that call this summer when he needs bees removed and I happen to be the only guy that does it professionally. I'll be sweet as pie, but I'm going to make it painful. Double the normal price, and half in a check the day I show up. I was thinking about bringing his bees back to his office (actually an empty box with a little MP3 player inside playing buzzing sounds). "you didn't pay me for the bee removal, so I'm bringing your bees back. If you'll just hand me a cardboard box, I'll pour them in. I just need to take this nuc box back home with me...." ;)

rob
www.mongrelbees.com
 
#9 ·
I had heard about the only commercial beekeeper in my area and I drove into his yard and introduced myself. It was in a public area, no signs, no locked gates. He was amicable but as I left he stated he didn't like that I just dropped in on him without calling. I stated that I did not know who he was so that is why I just dropped in. I called him a few weeks later and he just flew off the handle, ranting and raving non-stop over the phone about how improper I had been to just drop in on him. I later heard he is a big dope smoker, and I know from others they often have paranoia and a persecution complex. Have only heard bad rumblings about him ever since.
 
#13 ·
BeeGhost, why do you state disputes between commercial and sideliner,
Beekeepers are very territorial
And that is why I mentioned sideliners and commercial guys, people with a lot of hives and a lot of vested intrest in getting the best land.

Back yard bee keepers or people that own their own land might only have to deal with bad neighbors, on the other hand, the "big guns" have to deal with each other doing things like what loggermike stated........land wars between the big guys.

Was more curious about the kind of tactics that are performed during these "wars" than anything, and Loggermike stated a lot, which is what I wanted to hear about!

I wasnt trying to point out a fight between commerical guys and sideliners, but more about disputes between commercial guys, or between sideliner guys..............or maybe in some cases between sideliners and commercial guys!
 
#12 ·
I've heard stories from members here.... seems pretty brutal out there. Unless you're the land owner, I don't see how you have anything to say to anyone else putting bees there if everyone has permission. But, if I own the land and have my bees there and plant for them, I wouldn't like some other guy dropping a huge amount of hives on the property line trying to cash in on my hardwork.
 
#16 ·
Im telling you Adrian, if "Honey Boo Boo" can get a second season, why wouldn't a true life show called "Hive Wars" make it! Kind of a mix between "Amish Mafia" and "Wicked Tuna"!! Even if events are staged (like most reality shows now) it could get the interest of all kinds of viewers, put the word out about beekeeping and make package producers and nuc suppliers and bee supply companies RICH!! I am seriously going to send a letter to TLC or Discovery Channel and have them check into it. Heck, if commercial/sideliner guys don't mind a few cameras in their faces they could make a little extra dough for being themselves!!
 
#17 ·
I knew it. You started this thread because you wanted ideas for a script. I'm with you. Now for a title. How about "Honey boo boozers" or "The Sting(er)" or "The life and times of Pollen Patty" or "Bottom bored?" or "Not your usual Swingers" or "The real queens of California". Possibilities are endless.
 
#18 ·
Ive heard of people moving there hives leaving liquid seven in honey water mix and people stealing lots of suppers. Doing the frame swap. And when i was first wanting to get started in bees commerical beek from a place in tennese know for chicken fights said hed set me up with as many swarms as i wanted he hust letem fly. Called and talked to him for a hour. Then wont never awnser As gain.
 
#19 ·
But another guy gave me two hives for free. To mee sideliners are usually more laid back. Commericals are ok and wanna bee's but broke commerical usually dontcare who they screw or shaft to get where they think they are going. I worked for a guy and helped him and did the hole slave and rob all day it was sour wood traded a nuk to him one suday no call no nothing came and got what we talked about and brought acolony of foagers. Ha.f'd mee but he already told me was wanting welp with hives u can guess what im ganna tell him
 
#28 ·
Not stepping on any toes out here, I already made that clear with the farmer that if there is an issue I will move my bees. Not like I have the best spot on the entire 2500+ acres anyhow. The commercial guy that uses this guys land has been doing it for 20+ years I am told and he gets the yards on the flat land that is easy to get to, I get to use a place that is not quite as easy to get to and sure as heck would not get a large truck and trailer into. There was also another beekeeper that placed his hives on this land also, but from what I heard he wasn't respecting the land and was going to be asked to leave, but that is not my business, that's the farmers and I don't even know if it happened.

Im sure there are lots of toes to step on out here in the delta, and I don't plan on doing that at all, I am a small fish in the big sea. The only way I would go sideliner status is if I locked up some land that was all to myself. I don't see that happening out here as there are far stronger ties than what I have.

You guys sure like to assume a lot of things!!! If you want i'll start another thread on how to croche tea cozies if that makes you feel more secure about things....................just saying!! Oh ya, does my how to raise queens thread threaten anyone?? Hopefully OHB or other large queen breeders don't get offended or threatened when I start mass producing 20 queens or so a year, I might just put them out of business!!

I love having to explain myself!!! I'll be sure to return the favor!!:lookout:
 
#27 · (Edited)
Just because, I remember when I first came onto this site one of the threads I read was talking about how some beekeepers would run over other beekeepers hives in the citrus orchards in Florida. And also about that poisoning of bees that happened there a well. The thing that got the wheels turning on this is seeing the hives starting to arrive for almond pollination, and how I am seeing adds on Craigslist for lower than the going price, basically cut throat stuff. Just curious is all. If you need more information, feel free to ask if this answer is not good enough for you. Better yet, PM me if you think I have left something out.
 
#25 ·
When I first moved to Springfield, Missouri from Indiana, I worked for a supposedly commercial beekeeper here (he claims to run 700 hives, but has to buy 400 nucs every year to maintain that number). He threatened me physically if I ever told anyone about his beeyard locations or the fact that he puts hives on the Conservation Areas. Told me he would put Sevin in any of my hives that he found within 5 miles of his hives.

Angriest person I every met. I only worked for him a short time but I still remember how people kept asking me "Wow, you're still working for him? No one has ever lasted this long." I was told he assaulted an 85 year old man who criticized his nucs (that was the straw that broke the camel's back and caused the store to cancel his contract despite years of open hostility towards the customers). He is the only person I've ever heard of who was kicked out of a bee club.

ON another note, I know of at least two states where there are multiple bee Associations because the beekeepers could not get along well enough to stay together in one club. So they split and compete against each other.
 
#26 ·
I am part of a fish forum.
A garden forum
and 2 bee forums.
And beekeepers do seem to have more prominent "stingers".

Fish people are great and help each other. But then the odds of my aquarium fish invading someone else's aquarium are pretty low.

Aquarium services are sometimes like beekeepers. There are only so many tanks to take care of. we don't share well. (I share better than most, trying to get out of it.)
 
#29 ·
Not sure if many people have a big issue with price competition........ Rarely an issue in the long run cause the guy who undercuts everyone, especially dramatically usually gets out of the business from lack of capital fairly quickly.

Regarding jumping on established yards that's a whole different story. AKA "let the buyer" beware as stated so adeptly in the third person by MR. Logger mike. Yard jumpers in this industry are / have been dealt with like claim jumpers in the 1850's. Most commercial guys don't mind if a hive or two steps in their zone by a hobbyist but beyond that problems often arise anytime someone steps on another guys long established territory.

Acknowledged in most places its legal to do so but patently unwise. :eek:

There are two types of rules in all societies. The written ones and the unwritten ones. Most long established bee guys know the long established unwritten ones and follow them. Don't jump or steal another beeks yards!!!!!!!!!

Those who don't are shunned and are the folks who culminate their carrier as the person that everyone in the business avoids like a "friendly" lady with AIDS. Some times the "law breakers" face other "justice" as previously stated by the Logger whose "examples" are from an area I might call "turf war hell" from stories that come out of Northern California . Most good bee territory is long ago taken......A very long time ago at that. Many newbees think of this business as a free-for-all which it surely is not.

If you decide to grow big be patient and buy someone out when they retire.... Especially if someone is leaving you hints that you are in the "wrong" place. Prudent judiciousness will save you time and heartache if nothing else.

With all the technology today...... With Satellites, Remote control aircraft, Regular planes, Spy cameras, gps units.... Its fairly easy to find a jumper for those willing to invest the time to "secure" their beespace. Those who are known to bee "wise" in finding new yards wisely utilize the same resources and make sure they aren't in the wrong spot before the put bees in that big "new" yard... be they new or old at this business.:thumbsup:

Don't expect that your hives will be Bee "GHOSTS" IN their new yards... Someone is already looking out for them before you even put them down. . Guaranteed. :shhhh:
 
#33 ·
Honey-4-all,

I appreciate your advise. I do believe that I am not cutting in on anyone by obtaining this spot. It isn't like this is a whim. This has been in the works for a few months, and I am quite sure the farmers I am dealing with have talked to the long time beekeeper, due to the questions that were asked of me when I met with the farmer to go to the location that I can place my hives. I was asked how many hives, my answer is no more than twenty, the number of hives I can fit on my 16' trailer. I also stated that they will always be on the trailer and not set on the ground, that way if I need to move them in a hurry, I can strap down, hook up and roll and be out in one trip.

Now I havnt met the commercial guy yet, but I would like to. I am sure he is getting ready for almonds, but not positive. Actually, I don't even know how many hives this guy has, since the farmer actually has a guy come from Washington to pollinate his 600 acres of almonds.

Im not out to cut anyones throat. Im not out to undercut someones honey prices to have the local health food store carry my honey. And I sure don't plan on getting big enough to have to warrant buying specialized equipment.

If any of you on here have hives in the Manteca/Tracy/Lathrop area..........feel free to PM me and I will tell you exactly where I plan to put my bee trailer. Or if you know the person in those areas, or people in those areas, again, feel free to PM me.

And another question, why would a commercial guy care about someone with 20 hives compared to their..........who knows how many hives?

Looks like I have ruffled some feathers, didn't mean to by any means, just basically found a place to keep my HOBBY close to home and now I feel like I am being treated like a claim jumper.
 
#37 ·
Correct me if I am wrong, but, it looks like you are planning on setting 20 hives in or adjacent to an almond grove perminently. Is that right? A grove that a commercial beekeeper gets paid to pollinate? If that's accurate, that 20 fewer hives which the grove owner needs to pay for. So, in effect, you are taking money out of someones pocket, if that is so.

Also, I wouldn't think that having a yard perminently established in an almond grove would be a good idea regarding hive health, what w/ all the spraying which will be going on there.
 
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