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Requeening a Package

8K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  oldforte 
#1 ·
I want to try something this year but before I do I would like some feedback. In an attempt to give my stock a better chance at surviving without treatment I am looking to order up "Survivor" trait queens and put the survivor queen in the package to be released in place of the queen that came with the package. (The replacement queen would be added the same day I get the package.) I have purchased "stock" packages of bees since beginning beekeeping and they simply dont last. Therefore I end up purchasing more bees each year. I want to attempt to upgrade my hives with queens that are bred to survive treatment free.

So two questions. Anyone see a problem with this? If so what would it be?

Second question - Can you suggest someone who sells "survivor" queens. I know of Oliverez (sp?) but would like to look into others just for comparison purposes.
 
#2 ·
Sure you could do that. I think logistically it maybe more challenging. Making sure the packages and the queens arrive at the same time. It maybe easier to requeen the packages later on in the year once they are up and going.

I thought Oliverez sell package bees? Why not buy packages straight from them and skip the requeening.
 
#3 ·
There is the logistics side of it, but I think I have that worked out. If not I can certainly do as you suggest. I live in Oregon and have few options for "survivor" type bees. I'm too far away to pick up packages from Oliverez. If they, or someone else for that matter was closer, that would certainly be the way to go, but I just dont have those kind of options available to me.
 
#4 ·
It is your money and you have a right to spend it any way you want. That being said, you are being silly and wasting money. You are courting disaster by trying to get frangible commodities that are very dependent on the whims of nature to successfully 'tie' each other at your location. Do your research and find the bloodline and vendor of your dreams. It is a sure thing that quality queens will be much more available in July than in the spring. You may also get a better price.
 
#10 ·
Then If I were you I would find a different mode of action--I would only requeen the queens that show poor quality traits several weeks after introduction of the packages.

Also you mention you are having trouble overwintering/surviving of colonies--How many do you have and how many did you lose--management style may help you alot more than genetics, especially if we are only talking about a few hives.
 
#11 ·
This last year I started with four hives. Two packages of Carnies and then two nucs of "Survivor" bees from Old Sol. By Sept mites had taken one Survivor hive and one Carnie hive. In the last few weekswhen we had numerous nights of single digits, I the remaining Carnie hive. Pretty much giving up on them as much as I like them because they dont winter well. The remaining Survivor hive is all thats left. Dont know what else I could do (certainly open to suggestion) because I am not doing treatments. Thanks for your help.
 
#13 ·
No treatments meaning no chemicals. I had some left over honey so the packages got started on it and I didnt need to feed. Bottom box is a deep with small cell. The two mediums above it use foundationless frames. The Carnies went crazy and grew fast and big. I actually got a fair amount of honey from them. The one Carnie that went into winter had huge numbers, but Carnies naturally pull their numbers down more for winter than Italians do and I think that is why they struggle with winter. What other treatments did you have in mind?
 
#16 ·
I'm south of Klamath Falls and our weather is as cold as yours and the carnis. do very well here. They do have smaller clusters but that keeps them from starving out in our cold springs. Also I treat for mites with miteaway quick stips and they so far work great.
 
#18 ·
Two things,

I would place both queens in the cluster once you pour the bees. Leave the caps on both queens. Remove the sugar caps on the one you want "out" after 2 days and let the bees chew her out. Pull the "old queen" out at the same time. Let em rip>>>>

Your bigger challenge is finding true "survivor" queen stock. Besides anecdotal evidence which many folks claim to have achieved I was wondering what "Statistical analysis" you are looking for/ are requiring in determining your "survivor" choices?
 
#19 ·
whalers, I started out last year and tried to do this. The original package and queen arrived the same week but the package was mostly drowned by the syrup so I hived what I had with the special queen. When the replacement package came almost two weeks later I hived that queen with 2 lbs of bees and then I used about a pound of the bees to boost the numbers of the drowned package bees but to no avail, the queen never layed and they died out. The replacement package queen was a bit of a dud so I replaced her late summer and that hive was doing well as of a week ago.

From my experience I would agree that despite a great plan, there is a lot beyond our control with ordering/receiving bees and one thing going wrong can end in dead bees. Requeening later in the year worked out really well though.

Whatever you decide good luck!
 
#20 ·
Basically I'm looking for stock that receives no treatment. They survive on their own. There are also places where the queens a bred for these traits. You have to understand I'm going the no treatment route. My own experience shows little success with treating and so I am simply looking for bees that come from stock that has shown it has what it takes to make it on its own. It cant be any worse than buying bees every year because the "over the counter" bees dont make it.
 
#21 ·
And who would be on that no treatment list? Are they willing to let you put a lie detector machine in front of everyone involved in the operation when you ask about "no treatments? How long is "surviving on their own?" 3 months, ! year, 2 years? Forever like the old days? Is this for mites, viruses, Afb? Efb?
 
#23 ·
I am not in your area...but you can find "treatment Free" queens for sale in a lot of different places. You can find supposed mite tolerant bees in tons of locations. As far as what bee would adapt to the cold? I can say. I have read that Buckfast has good adaptability, and Russians are supposed to be cold hardy and mite tolerant. So I would suggest, trying a few different types of queens and see what does best. If you use several types of queens and they still don't survive, then it may have something to do with management practices. My bees are treatment free, but they are well managed. IMO

Anyway, whichever bee makes it out of the winter the best...maybe stick with those.
 
#25 ·
Whalers you have been getting some knowledgeable advice but you should also expand your horizons a little bit. Maybe instead of fooling around with importing package bees each spring loaded with mites and poorly adapted queens you should seek out the advice of an experienced local beekeeper and look for a source of local bees such as a nuc to purchase. You also need to realize that there is no super breed of queen that is going to be 100% foolroof against varroa.
 
#26 ·
Risky bizz. I agree entirely. However, there are no local sources of bees. Period. Its a cold short season and we all experience the same issues. Believe me, if I can find a strain that works well here I could sell everything I can produce. I also understand there are no "foolproof" queens against varroa. My goal is to pull splits out of my own hives that make it through a season and attempt to use them to restock each year. So rather than use the "dime store" varieties that i know are going to die, there is no reason not to attempt to find and upgrade to a little little better stock. last year I bot 2 nucs of quote, survivor bees. I had to drive four hours to get them and four hours back. one of them survived and I will pull as many splits out of them as I can. I also bot two packages of Carnies. Mites got one and the other didnt winter even though it was extremely healthy going into winter. Just looking to find better stock to be able to raise my own bees. The opinion I seem to be getting here is you just have to go out and buy them each year and I dont want to do that.
 
#27 ·
Whalers,

I think I understand where you are coming from. I don't treat and my bees have survived for 5 years without anything. I will not say they are totally mite free, but I have never seen any, never found any on sticky boards, not 1! I have SC mutt bees from Wolf Creek in TN. John has been working on this breed for years. I know his bees survive & thrive in Warre hives in Michigan and I have personally seen mys bees flying on sunny days at 35 degrees. Yea I know all you nay sayers are cranking up, but facts are facts. ;)

Whalers if you care to look, check out his site wolfcreebees dot com. Call them, decide for yourself. Also be open-minded, you can treat for pests & diseases w/o harsh chemicals. Just a thought. Like I said, I haven't treated yet, but I not going to lose my investment or my bees just to say I don't treat. I treat myself when needed, so do you.:D
 
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