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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Requeening a Package

    I want to try something this year but before I do I would like some feedback. In an attempt to give my stock a better chance at surviving without treatment I am looking to order up "Survivor" trait queens and put the survivor queen in the package to be released in place of the queen that came with the package. (The replacement queen would be added the same day I get the package.) I have purchased "stock" packages of bees since beginning beekeeping and they simply dont last. Therefore I end up purchasing more bees each year. I want to attempt to upgrade my hives with queens that are bred to survive treatment free.

    So two questions. Anyone see a problem with this? If so what would it be?

    Second question - Can you suggest someone who sells "survivor" queens. I know of Oliverez (sp?) but would like to look into others just for comparison purposes.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,690

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Sure you could do that. I think logistically it maybe more challenging. Making sure the packages and the queens arrive at the same time. It maybe easier to requeen the packages later on in the year once they are up and going.

    I thought Oliverez sell package bees? Why not buy packages straight from them and skip the requeening.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    There is the logistics side of it, but I think I have that worked out. If not I can certainly do as you suggest. I live in Oregon and have few options for "survivor" type bees. I'm too far away to pick up packages from Oliverez. If they, or someone else for that matter was closer, that would certainly be the way to go, but I just dont have those kind of options available to me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,068

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    It is your money and you have a right to spend it any way you want. That being said, you are being silly and wasting money. You are courting disaster by trying to get frangible commodities that are very dependent on the whims of nature to successfully 'tie' each other at your location. Do your research and find the bloodline and vendor of your dreams. It is a sure thing that quality queens will be much more available in July than in the spring. You may also get a better price.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Hmmmm. Maybe not a bad idea. Our season is so short here I'm always thinking of getting right on things as soon as possible.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    SALEM, OREGON
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    i think you should post this in the fantasy forum

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    I'm not sure why. If you dont know my season and situation why make fun? I think maybe YOU should BEESERIOUS

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,629

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Buy queenless packages and queens from your source of choice. Why waste money buying a throw away queen?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    I would love to, but queenless packages arent available in my area.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester NY
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Then If I were you I would find a different mode of action--I would only requeen the queens that show poor quality traits several weeks after introduction of the packages.

    Also you mention you are having trouble overwintering/surviving of colonies--How many do you have and how many did you lose--management style may help you alot more than genetics, especially if we are only talking about a few hives.
    http://www.peekskillnurseries.com
    Specialists in Ground Cover plants since 1937. Talk to me about ground-covers!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    This last year I started with four hives. Two packages of Carnies and then two nucs of "Survivor" bees from Old Sol. By Sept mites had taken one Survivor hive and one Carnie hive. In the last few weekswhen we had numerous nights of single digits, I the remaining Carnie hive. Pretty much giving up on them as much as I like them because they dont winter well. The remaining Survivor hive is all thats left. Dont know what else I could do (certainly open to suggestion) because I am not doing treatments. Thanks for your help.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester NY
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    No treatments at all? Natural or not?
    http://www.peekskillnurseries.com
    Specialists in Ground Cover plants since 1937. Talk to me about ground-covers!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    No treatments meaning no chemicals. I had some left over honey so the packages got started on it and I didnt need to feed. Bottom box is a deep with small cell. The two mediums above it use foundationless frames. The Carnies went crazy and grew fast and big. I actually got a fair amount of honey from them. The one Carnie that went into winter had huge numbers, but Carnies naturally pull their numbers down more for winter than Italians do and I think that is why they struggle with winter. What other treatments did you have in mind?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester NY
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Thymol which comes from the thyme plant available as APIGUARD gel or apilife var wafers pretty effective, doesn't stay in wax for the most part and easy to use
    http://www.peekskillnurseries.com
    Specialists in Ground Cover plants since 1937. Talk to me about ground-covers!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eatonville WA USA
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    as far as survivor go I would give oylmpic wilderness apiary a try have heard nothing but good stuff about there queens

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Midland OR. United States
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    I'm south of Klamath Falls and our weather is as cold as yours and the carnis. do very well here. They do have smaller clusters but that keeps them from starving out in our cold springs. Also I treat for mites with miteaway quick stips and they so far work great.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    I will try the Carnies again but they just dont seem to do well here, at least in the winter. They do so well in the summer its hard not to try them.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Solano, California, USA
    Posts
    1,378

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Two things,

    I would place both queens in the cluster once you pour the bees. Leave the caps on both queens. Remove the sugar caps on the one you want "out" after 2 days and let the bees chew her out. Pull the "old queen" out at the same time. Let em rip>>>>

    Your bigger challenge is finding true "survivor" queen stock. Besides anecdotal evidence which many folks claim to have achieved I was wondering what "Statistical analysis" you are looking for/ are requiring in determining your "survivor" choices?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    626

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    whalers, I started out last year and tried to do this. The original package and queen arrived the same week but the package was mostly drowned by the syrup so I hived what I had with the special queen. When the replacement package came almost two weeks later I hived that queen with 2 lbs of bees and then I used about a pound of the bees to boost the numbers of the drowned package bees but to no avail, the queen never layed and they died out. The replacement package queen was a bit of a dud so I replaced her late summer and that hive was doing well as of a week ago.

    From my experience I would agree that despite a great plan, there is a lot beyond our control with ordering/receiving bees and one thing going wrong can end in dead bees. Requeening later in the year worked out really well though.

    Whatever you decide good luck!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Redmond Oregon
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Requeening a Package

    Basically I'm looking for stock that receives no treatment. They survive on their own. There are also places where the queens a bred for these traits. You have to understand I'm going the no treatment route. My own experience shows little success with treating and so I am simply looking for bees that come from stock that has shown it has what it takes to make it on its own. It cant be any worse than buying bees every year because the "over the counter" bees dont make it.

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