RUSSELL APIARIES- FACTS, and first hand knowledge... He taught me how to raise bees

[Beregondo]

For some one who started this thread by throwing stones at the business practices of a man you've never done business with and only know through the hearsay of a convict, you sure seem to be taking a holier-than-thou attitude.

If I understand things as you have presented them correctly:

Your friend Ricky the convict is an honest man, and
Russell the businessman who has not been in trouble with the law is not, and
We should believe these "facts and first hand knowledge" about Robert because...

Ricky the honest convict told you so and you believe him because your wife worked for their dad once?

I was born in the morning...but not THIS morning!

[SippyBees]

To frazzledfozzle ... I never said how many hives his dad had.... so how would someone in New Zealand know this???
To Beregondo ... I said much more than you are giving me credit for... but you can take the parts you want and twist them to any end you want. I dont need Robert Russel to steal MY money also to know he doesn't deliver his queens or make refunds for those he doesn't fill... I can also read his website and know there is no WAY all of what he says is true.... call me what you will... but how do you know ALSO being way up there in New York??
You can come here anytime you want.. and you can see what is what... I am NOT hiding... my phone and address is pretty much a matter of public record...
People that dont have anything to hide from.. usually DON't hide.
Mr Robert Russell was very active here when he was taking your money.... but haven't seen a single post from him NOW do we? but have many questionable people from all over the world who know more than they should about this matter.. who seem to want to attack me very much.... quite interesting... but is no mind to me. I said what I said and it is true....
Let Robert come here and tell us what the REAL story is if he wants.... let him come to my HOUSE and discuss it with me if he wants.... I do not hide, and I am not ashamed of anything I have said or done here.

[Beregondo]

Me?

I've actually done business with the Russell Apiaries family of independent queen producers.

I got great bees and enjoyed good service from honest men, whose words to me have always been kept, and those words were both helpful and constructive.

They are acquaintances whose knowledge, generosity, and reliable advice have become a valuable resource to me in growing an apiary.

A new member of the forum began attacking not only Russell Apiaries, but through innuendo and suggestion those good men, and a valuable resource to me.

All I have done is challenge the accuracy and reliability of that new member.
I have exercised restraint and offered no opinion as to that member's integrity or character.

I do not attack you, sir.

I asked questions as to what was said, and suggested the story related was perhaps less than first hand and might not be credible, asking you to clarify.

I believe you have.

That's what I'm doing way up here in New York.

[Barry]

I'll give this warning about members questioning each other's integrity and/or intentions. Share you own experience, but there will be no attacking of members and positions they take.

[frazzledfozzle]

[QUOTE\]To frazzledfozzle ... I never said how many hives his dad had.... so how would someone in New Zealand know this??? .[/QUOTE]

OK I got the number of hives wrong because I couldn't be bothered to go back to your previous posts and find what you said.

but as you dont remember saying how many hives his father had here's the quote from your Original Post.

#7.. I WORKED for his Dad, shook those bees... caught his queens... and on the BEST year JN ran about 400-600 hives.

But I'm not up for a he said she said debate and I have no idea whether what you say is true or not.

[SippyBees]

OK.. so sometimes it is SLOW to sink into my head... obviously SOME people do not agree with what I have said. All fine and good. I originally wrote here about what I knew.. and what I had heard... take it for its worth to you individually... but I am FINISHED being questioned, called out, proving anything, answering PM's, or anything else.... as far as I am concerned this thread is DEAD to me. I cannot add anymore and is a waste of my time to try and protect my own reputation by those who want to question me. You are welcome to come here and meet me in person ANY TIME you want... You can all discuss it until you become sick on it... but I am finished with this.
Best of luck and good beekeeping to all....

[Oldtimer]

Sippy if you want to give it you also have to take it.

I don't see anyone calling you out, people just seeing if there's another side to the coin, as is normal in a properly balanced discussion. Don't think there's anything personal about you.

[wildbranch2007]

I do find interesting that even though these hives were stolen from a Dr. Russell apiary, no one has seen fit to post on his web site that the hives are missing?

[Saltybee]

Maybe some things we can agree on; Do not buy queens from someone who only uses Paypal.
RA of late 2011 and 2012 was not the same RA as previously.
RA is gone from the consumer queen market. Many here are responsible.
RA refunds come as quickly as missing queens.
Local RA's are not proven as either the bad RA or the good version. So far positive feedback, though limited feedback.
It takes good genes and good husbandry to make a great queen. Which was missing from a bad queen will start a hundred circular arguments.
A missing queen had bad genes and bad husbandry.
Local police chief says he does not deal with many bad people, just with good people having a bad day. Some victims do not care which is true. The result in a hive is the same. Some victims will forgive one but not the other.
Saying RA will start an argument.

[Intheswamp]

Yes.. they CAN both be true. He IS a felon... he cant change that.... but he wasn't convicted of stealing anything.... and he never stole from anyone I know... but you can have WHATEVER opinion about him you want... I am quite sure he wouldn't care what you think. <snip>

Sippy, I think your intention in starting this thread was to somehow help Ricky Russell and yourself in regards to a possible business venture. Personally, I believe you have done more damage than good. My recommendation would be to drop participation in this thread and let it hopefully die a natural death.

But, if you wish to continue communicating in this thread I have a question. The Mississippi Code of 1972, SEC. 97-3-95, Sexual battery is a very short section of code that defines a range of crimes. The code lists basically everything from child rape to adult rape. Since you are close to the source and know what went on and is going on would you state for which subsection of this section Ricky Russell was convicted? There are only four definitions from which to choose.

As Oldtimer stated, if indeed Ricky Russell "wouldn't care what you think" then that is not good. If RRussell doesn't care that sex crimes are bad (as does the very large majority of society) then that means that his incarceration and rehabilitation were ineffective and the chance for recidivism is substantial. I wonder if he tells his parole officer that he doesn't care what society thinks about him?

In your statement above "He IS a felon... he cant change that.... but he wasn't convicted of stealing anything.... and he never stole from anyone I know...." that "but" seems to imply that theft of property is worse than rape. I object to that implication. The felony you spoke of is RAPE. If a crime is minimized in society's mind then the victim is also minimized. Rape is much, much, much more traumatic and life altering to the VICTIM than theft will ever be...and rape steals some of the most precious, irreplaceable possessions that an individual has.

ETA: After reading Sippy's post again, I don't think he is implying that stealing is worse than rape. I think it was more a bad use of wording than his view on thievery versus rape. Having said that, I would have more sympathy for a rabid dog than I would a thief (and I would have none for a rapist) that I caught in the act.

...as for the rabid dog, I would shoot it.

[Beregondo]

deleted by author

[MSBEEINSPECTOR]

I have been off of this forum for several months since the other threads dealing with Robert Russell last year. This one caught my attention and had to respond, but not before sending a PM to both SippyBees and Major, to thank them for the truth. As I stated last year I will not speak of specifics dealing with a case on a public forum, but I did send the appropiate documentation concerning our (State of MS) cases against Robert Russell to Barry.

SippyBees (all of them) & Major (01-17-2013 10:55 AM #13) have stated the truth of the facts. There are still those that remind me of the old quote "don't bother me with the facts, my mind is already made up".

[Joel]

I have been off of this forum for several months since the other threads dealing with Robert Russell last year. This one caught my attention and had to respond, but not before sending a PM to both SippyBees and Major, to thank them for the truth. As I stated last year I will not speak of specifics dealing with a case on a public forum, but I did send the appropiate documentation concerning our (State of MS) cases against Robert Russell to Barry.

SippyBees (all of them) & Major (01-17-2013 10:55 AM #13) have stated the truth of the facts. There are still those that remind me of the old quote "don't bother me with the facts, my mind is already made up".

In the states I work with if an inspector, from any division, quoted something like this on any public forum, he would not be an inspector for long. Inspectors as state employees have an obligation both legally and morally to maintain their opinions privately when posting as a state representative. There are state ethics laws that deal with these types of issues in every state and these types of violations provide a platform for prima facie lawsuits to injured parties against both the state and privately to indivisuals who act outside the scope of their duties in disregarding those laws.

[camero7]

In the states I work with if an inspector, from any division, quoted something like this on any public forum, he would not be an inspector for long. Inspectors as state employees have an obligation both legally and morally to maintain their opinions privately when posting as a state representative.

In my state, MA, the local bee inspector put his name to a major study that has been roundly criticized. He's still a bee inspector, so I don't think that is universal

[Joel]

Supporting a research study and making critical statements (by supporting a wide range of negative statements) regarding an operation for profit (or even had it been and individual beekeeper) coming under the states inspection jurisdiction, by a state inspector, are 2 completely different things. Is there a health risk here, Maybe Fraud, possibly criminal activity - perhaps those things would be put out in some sort of official response to an investigation once approved by whoever the state authority is, not on a beesource post in the midst of a scandal. The same thing would go for positive statements by inspectors. It is not there job to endorse or malign any beekeeper but to inspect and act within the scope of there duties. I will be very suprised if nothing comes of it. Think about the impact an inspectors statement relating to the venerability of any enterprise could be. My bet is Robert will make a report to the state and likely file a suit for damages.

[SippyBees]

Robert seems to be missing JOEL.... and all the bee inspector said was that certain things I stated before with which falls under HIS job responsibility are TRUE. IT IS a matter of public record.... but since no one on this forum will bother to find out, they just keep hammering ME for slandering someone. NEWS JOEL... it is not SLANDER if it is TRUE!!! Where do YOURE statements and opinion come from??? What do YOU know about the whole situation??? WHO THE ?? ARE YOU? IF anything I said in this matter is not true then let ROBERT RUSSELL come here and tell everyone I am full of hmmm something. MOST of the people who dont believe what I have said don't live here, and dont have a dog in the hunt EITHER... STOP CRAWLING MY BACKSIDE.
I HEARTILY INVITE MR ROBERT RUSSELL TO COME HERE AND TELL ME I AM WRONG AND PROVE WHO HE REALLY IS!!!!! I invite him to meet me PERSONALLY!!!! And if ANYTHING ... ANYTHING>>> I have said here about the situation is NOT TRUE I will PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE I was WRONG....
This thing is like a soap opera.... unbelievable.... and I COMPLETELY agree... dont bother me with the truth... I know what I think already....

[camero7]

My bet is Robert will make a report to the state and likely file a suit for damages.

Curious, what is your relationship to Russell? Are you one of his satellites?

[Beregondo]

Joel Klose of Natures Way Farm

Is respected in the local community in the Southern Tier of New York as an honest, honorable man and one who is very generous with his bee wisdom to others less knowledgeable in the beekeeping community.

He's got his *own* line of bees, Finger Lakes Hybrids.

It's difficult for some to remain silent when someone makes deprecating suggestions concerning a man not present to defend himself, particularly one so generous and honorable the one being so attacked here.

[camero7]

Joel Klose of Natures Way Farm

Is respected in the local community in the Southern Tier of New York as an honest, honorable man and one who is very generous with his bee wisdom to others less knowledgeable in the beekeeping community.

He's got his *own* line of bees, Finger Lakes Hybrids.

It's difficult for some to remain silent when someone makes deprecating suggestions concerning a man not present to defend himself, particularly one so generous and honorable the one being so attacked here.

Just curious why you two are so adamant and concerned with defending someone who has stiffed so many people.

[Beregondo]

"The first to plead his case seems right,
Until another comes and examines him."

There's more to the story than has been presented here.
Just because one offers no defense, does not mean none exists.

Time, and not words, will prove the character of the parties involved.

(That being the case, perhaps my efforts here are ill-advised.
It is hard for me to be still though, given what I have seen of Robert's character.)