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Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

45K views 152 replies 58 participants last post by  shannonswyatt 
#1 ·
Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH? Just curious how common this experience is.
 
#106 ·
Maybe the class needs to be restructured with one full day devoted to TBH. that way those interested can attend and those not can go tend to langs? Put some hands on to their class time.
 
#107 ·
I went to my first BeeKeeper meeting last month in SE Wis here. Walked in an saw a beautiful cedar TBH sitting there. One of the "well seasoned" members had made it, but adapted it for supers also. They still talk about TBH's as if they were alien technology but it was nice to see I wasnt the only one trying them out.

I was chatted up by a couple members and they offered great general bee advice and never hinted at anti-TBH sentiments ;)

But this is the Midwest...we are some of the nicest people you will meet!
 
#108 ·
I have always used langs.....haven't even seen a tbh ....I'm old but still open minded ( what's left of it :) might try one ...tough to do a split from langs to tbh ? ...and where one puts their purchased bees is no ones elses concern....coat them with chocolate and eat them.....they are yours......mmmmm....nice venom buzz
 
#111 ·
Some folks have done cutouts to TBHs, but pretty much everyone that has done it doesn't recommend it. Why not just a shaken split (make your own package of bees). If you go that route make sure to have a closed bottom as they may abscond otherwise. I recommend that you make your bars 19 inches by 1 3/8 and then you could put a few bars in a few hives to get them to pull out some comb for you.
 
#112 ·
Why not just a shaken split (make your own package of bees).
Yes that's exactly what I do when I'm setting up TBH's for people. Far less drama than messing with cutting combs etc. I just make sure their TBH has properly set up comb guides and a sensible method for feeding (if that's needed), and the bees will have the first combs built within a day or two and be on their way to a hassle free install.

If they are new beeks I only do local & install the bees myself to make sure it all works out.
 
#116 ·
we have our first TBH goin now for about 2 weeks and we love it ! i really do think its a better way to raise bees...FOR THE bees sake. but for not its not all that commercially possible YET. i think its a matter of time. one thing i am very certain about is that every one at the markets we will be selling at this season will definitely be seeing TBH;s up close and we'll be offering them for sale as well. the people in our town are soo taken aback by it. it just looks soo easy to work with they say. and i really do think it is easier to deal with for the back yarder.
 
#119 ·
Yes. The president of the local bee club dedicated a meeting to railing against tbh's, and passed out an article that was critical of them (which had some misinformation in it). I took a class offered by a local beekeeper and he said tbh's don't work, the bees die in the winter because they "can't move up." A bee supplier told me the same, said I would have to buy bees every spring.

That was my first year, just after I made my first tbh's. Well, they made it through the winter with an about 1 1/2 week cold spell with lows around 4 F, high around 20 F, and are quite strong this spring. Lot of folks with Langs lost colonies. 'Course there are many more Langs around so that doesn't say there were proportionately more lost. Don't think anyone knows the cause for sure, though some blame the cold snap.

I can see why the suppliers would be against tbh's, cuts into their sales of hive kits, since tbh's are easy to make yourself. The others I think may just have an aversion to anything new and different. Plus the club president has no experience with tbh's, so maybe he feels that threatens his position as the expert. All this is just bull to me. I don't care what anyone uses. Its all interesting to me, and I'm ready to cooperate with and help anyone. Why would I care what hive they use? I think its good to keep on experimenting and testing.
 
#120 ·
Beekeeping beliefs are like religious beliefs, but so far there is less killing each other over them.
 
#121 ·
I posted earlier in this thread and have since contacted my state bee inspector to ask about selling some nucs next spring. I explained that I have treatment free bees ( four years mite treatment free. ) He was nice but very skeptical and told me that Ga. law requires that I treat them before offering them for sale . He then asked what stock bee I had, I explained that they were survivor bees, he said they recommended against keeping survivor bees.Then I mentioned that I would place them in deep langs after converting them from top bar hives. I also stated that the langs would be foundationless. I think I may have heard a gasp and a period of silence.
I won't go into the back and forth frustrated conversation that continued for an hour. I felt sorry for the guy I am sure for him I was the phone call from hell. He did offer many reasons why it all wouldn't work and predicted that one day a disease would suddenly wipe all my bees out. But to his credit we worked it out and I will call for an inspection this fall after I treat with Apivar for mites. He understands that my top bar parent hives will be kept a good distance from my langs and the top bar will not be treated and the langs will be treated and they will not be mixed, and only the treated bees will be sold. Under the circumstances I felt he did a great job, maybe I will learn a lot from him and he might change his opinion about top bar hives, well we can hope.
 
#125 ·
I am new to beekeeping and new to this forum. Over the past year, I've been reading beekeeping books, watching videos, watching youtube videos, and I attended beekeeping classes given by three different local experts.

I went with a kenyan top bar hive because it looked less complicated to me. I have sprained my back a number of times in the past and I don't want to do that again if I can avoid it. Then I had abdominal surgery for stomach cancer, and so my abdominals are not that strong either. Until this year I thought I was as strong as an ox, but not now. I don't really care what other people use, and I know that all of the popular methods actually work as far as producing some honey and giving the bees a place to set up a hive, which is all I am interested in. I like working with nature, animals and plants.

After reading in a number of places about controversies regarding hive type, I wondered if biases would cloud any advice I got. I went to the local beekeeping club, once, but it was so formalized as a meeting, and I felt like I didn't learn anything. So I've been depending on the books and internet to learn. At one of the classes I went to about top bar beekeeping, the teacher seemed to downplay the top bar hives, expecially Kenyan top bar hive, which I thought was odd because he sells them, along with Warre and Langstroth hives and equipment. At the other class i went to, the instructor was more enthusiastic about the Kenyantop bar hive, but did not commit as to what he liked better, and he also sells all three types.

Over the winter I built a kenyan top bar hive from a purchased kit. I like the idea of working with one bar at a time. Two weeks ago I installed a package of bees. All went as expected. The weather here is chilly now. They have built comb, but are not foraging much that I can see. I assume when it warms up they will be out for nectar and pollen. I feel uncertain about some aspects, but so far, at the very beginning, I feel OK about that.

Too bad there is posturing and animosity or attitude about hive type. Makes me not want to go to a bee club. I'm too introverted anyway. I'm not a hermit but after spending my days working with so many people, I like being by myself in the yard and garden.

My hope here is to learn what I need to learn to keep bees, not have them swarm or die, get some honey and honeycomb, and sit in my chair and watch them collect pollen from the trees and dandelions. I also put in a 1/4 acre wildflower meadow, but that might not be blooming until next year.

I hope people will be open to the different methods and cross pollinate each other with their experiences and ideas.
 
#127 ·
The weather here is chilly now. They have built comb, but are not foraging much that I can see. I assume when it warms up they will be out for nectar and pollen. I feel uncertain about some aspects, but so far, at the very beginning, I feel OK about that.
Long as they do not run out of food, ie, you feed them if need be if they cannot collect their own, and they should be fine.

Too bad there is posturing and animosity or attitude about hive type.
Just make sure that person is not you. The criteria should not be that a person has to wildly support Kenya TBH's and dis everything else or you write them off as a beekeeper. If the people who ran your courses took a neutral stance, what more can you reasonably ask? Shannon's post was very good, many of these folks you mention will be good beekeepers who can offer you a lot. This transcends the mere shape of the box the bees live in.
 
#126 ·
I can understand people that sell stuff not being very enthusiastic about TBHs. A lot of TBH folks make there own hive, so there is little money to be made from someone who sells bee supplies (no foundations, extractors, frames, etc). And it wouldn't be good business sense to talk up TBHs if that means you may loose money. Don't stop going to meetings, there is a lot of information exchanged, and most importantly the contacts you may meet. Just because "Old Joe" has never seen a TBH it doesn't mean he hasn't seen AFB, Nosema, Varroa, etc, and you can get help from the folks you meet, or just exchange ideas.
 
#129 ·
Thanks for the comments. I think I'm pretty much a no-attitude guy. Nothing to prove. Not trying to convince anyone of anything, no agenda. Just trying to learn.

Thanks for the advice about feeding. I have an in-hive feeder with sugar water. Today was sunny and the bees were in the flowering cherry trees, so I think that's a good sign.

Sunny day. I pulled up a lawn chair near the hive and watched them flying in and out and around. Gave me peace of mind.
 
#130 ·
I'd have to say that the reaction from folks in the bee club here has been more a kind of tolerant amusement, and that's fine. So far as I can tell, none of them have any experience with top bar hives or (as in my case) long hives.

But the guy I got my first bees from has become interested in the long hive, and talked about building one himself. Running frames without foundation was a new idea to him; he can hardly believe what nice comb my bees are building without foundation.
 
#131 ·
stan.vick wrote "He was nice but very skeptical and told me that Ga. law requires that I treat them before offering them for sale ."

I have been in one meeting and heard the Ga inspector speak. I wondered how much he really new about beekeeping. Is his knowledge from reading pamphlets, not books and not experience? The only comment I really remember was that it was recommended that all swarms in Ga. be killed unless you knew for certain that it came from your own hive.

Did you ask to see the state law in writing? I thought the Fat Beeman's bees were treatment free. He is in Lula, GA.

Is treatment required for in-state sales or only for out of state sales?

stan.vick wrote, "Then I mentioned that I would place them in deep langs after converting them from top bar hives. I also stated that the langs would be foundationless. I think I may have heard a gasp and a period of silence."

I fear if it is not in a white box it is outside his thinking.

Stan before you make that drastic step toward drugs check around and make certain what the law requires. If there truly is a written law that requires mite treatment for all sales, could the treatment not be powdered sugar?

I hate to see good survivor stock turn into drug addicts.
 
#133 ·
Eukofios Oltimer is very correct about feeding now. Note that ALL the food the package has is in that can that came with them! You must feed them until they have built some comb and stored some honey in that comb. That may take some time if the weather and your bloom date work against them. FEED!
 
#134 ·
Criticism from other beeks, Yes. From the bees? Well, if they don't like it, they abscond or they die. Standard Lang's, Top Bar Hives, William Broughton Carr hives, mini mating nucs, non-standard hive dimensions, observer hives, I've kept and lost bees from each. Seems the WBC hive holds them in the best of all, but I don't have enough of them to make a statistically significant statement.

Surprising how much response and emotion seems to be going into a moot point. It reminds me of the beer commercial, "LESS FILLING!" "TASTES GREAT!", or the Ford vs. Chevrolet question...to which my favorite answer is, "Niether one beats a P-51 Mustang."

I back up "don't listen to criticism..." ...to which I would add, "that is not backed up with data nor experience!". I'd also back up Oldtimer in mentioning the physical differences regarding long hives vs. vertical hives, which makes a difference if you are one of the bees inside the box! Cluster movement can be critical.

As far as adapting from Langstroth to TBH, it is not difficult to make an adapter box, and let the bees draw out their own comb while "moving in" to the TBH.

Michael Bush has made a good point in the past - foundationless frames are very durable compared to Top Bar combs. Many folks have strongly suggested that a starter strip of foundation sure helps get the comb oriented in the correct direction. I admit that I have grown a preference to foundationless medium Langstroth frames over top bar hives, as they can be accelerated in an extractor very easily, without breaking, and producing a lot more honey than TBH. Now, I can see the weight needle on my scale point to a larger number in pounds of honey, and I give that much more consideration than I give to criticism from inexperienced folks without data!
 
#135 ·
It goes in all directions. I don't like it when people try to preach thier methods as gospell. Top bar people say it is the only way, Lang guys say top bars are a waist of time, warre say that is they only way. To each his own. I get tired of things like people will be talking about treatments or something and the chem free guys who have thier own forum start jumping in like they know everything and thats the only way to do it. That's just an example. I started with langs and had a top bar. I got critisized both ways.
 
#136 ·
More power to you. Build some of each type, put bees in them, start letting the bees teach us. See what works for you. Keep notes on pounds of honey produced, mite counts in the sticky paper under the SBB, evidence of bitten mites, uncapping of pink- or purple-eyes pupae, other hygenic habits, fly-out distance, proboscus length, any trait you can document.

OBSERVED RAW DATA TRUMPS OPINIONS 7 DAYS A WEEK.
 
#140 ·
When I first got into beekeeping, a few things occurred to me as quite obvious. One was that I would have to get in to queen breeding and stock improvement, another was that there would be more than two ways to do most everything and that I would certainly try most hive arrangements. I knew that this would slow my efforts toward commercial beekeeping, but I figured that in the long run, I would be glad that I tried some of each. Why make 3,000 of the box that doesn't work as well as the other? It turns out that hive management is far more important than box configuration.
 
#142 · (Edited)
Salty - True, and it helps if you know Sign Language. It gets you quite accustomed to taking in information through the eyes, and helps you "Hear" when the message is not "loud". Anyone can have good observation skills, I just notice that my Deaf friends all are exceptionally good at it. I could consider myself to be "lucky" - I'm hard of hearing enough to know Sign Language, and can hear enough to talk with most people, especially ones who speak slow and clear.
 
#143 ·
hostility or not.

like anything in life...have the right attitude...blow it off...be yourself...bee respectful...be an open mind....don't take things personal.

you have little control over others...so take what you can from them...good and bad...learn...and then pay it forward
 
#144 ·
I joined a local beekeeping association and only seem to be criticized from one of the leaders of the group. they had a tbh and lost it over the winter they decided to do away with it and now don't seem to want to have anything to do with them. they also lost 3 langs that same winter. I was hoping to find a mentor to help me succeed with my hobby. i will look for a new group to join and read a lot to help me learn.
 
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