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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Nashville,Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Yes, I've had some guys act very smug and dismissive. On the other hand, I've met some really cool people that like both TBH's and Langs. I wouldn't want to hang out with the guys that are critical anyway.
    Last edited by OdieB; 02-16-2013 at 08:19 PM.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Albany, ga
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Wow, there have been a lot of post for such a young forum.

    I am a member of a young bee club. It is only two years old and most members are new to beekeeping with only a few long-term keepers. Yes there was some negativity for a while. However last year at one point, we had 5 or 6 people with TBH’s. I am the only one still attending meetings. Is it because of some made them feel inferior? I don’t know. I am still hanging in there and next month I have been asked to be the club speaker. Why? I have paid my dues. How? Two ways

    1. It was said at club meeting many times, “There is money in beekeeping. Your money!” Shannonswyatt wrote: “Yes, we can always justify speeding money on a hobby!” I am able to say that I have less than $20 in first two hives. Right now I have the parts cut for six more hive in the back of the truck. Those have cost nothing so far. I will use the left over glue and screws to put them together, so maybe these six will cost me another $20. I got a lot more than $20 in honey last year.
    2. I not only still have my original two colonies, I have managed to add one. Entering the third year with no losses. I know my time is coming when I will lose colonies. I know of no other in our club that can say that. I know that it is pure luck and some really good bees, but it does help my credibility.

    I am sure that all the smirking is not over and I might get dumped on during the Q&A at the next meeting, but I don’t think so. I enjoy the company of my fellow beekeepers, so I can take what comes.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Clover, WV
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I built two oak top bar hives, because they seemed easy to build and I have a pile of oak 1x12s. A friend is giving me two old langs, and I couldn't be more excited about getting to try and have experience with both. No preaching about the 'right way' coming from this direction. Who are these "passionate" blowhards being so negative?
    John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
    14 hives - All cutouts and swarms

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,167

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cub View Post
    No preaching about the 'right way' coming from this direction. Who are these "passionate" blowhards being so negative?
    Because they think that others doing it their way makes them right.

    Like those here that think if they can insult you you it makes them right. People do some strange things. and many follow right along. It's how we end up with politicians being chosen. Very few people are genuinely intelligent. It takes to much effort.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,523

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Well, I think that they were taught to keep bees a certain way and because of that, it becomes the only way that will work in there eyes. In reality it isn't hostility (generally) from folks, it is more of a general "that won't work mentality". But I would say most of them are well meaning, they are just trying to point out that we don't know what we are doing. I will agree that I have a lot to learn, but you learn from trying, and I'm trying several ways. Hopefully I learn more that way!

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Esperance, New York, USA
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I'm a second year beek. I run horizontal hives, they each hold 20 lang frames with the "tabs" cut off nailed to top bars. I can put another 20 frames on in supers, which is nice. I made them myself from a lot of stuff that I already had around, only had to buy hardware and frames. I thought when I built them that it looked easy to manage, and frankly I couldn't afford langs, and the finger joints made them too difficult to build. I've met with a lot of negativity from my local "mentor" assigned by the beekeeping club. But I've had another local beek be supportive. I think it depends on the person. I had people tell me I wouldn't get any honey, or that I'd have so many problems with cross comb that I'd give up, thatthey won't overwinter in my climate, that the bees won't build horizontally. I figure, in the wild bees don't build exclusively in vertical tree cavities. Clearly I don't have the experience of some to fall back on, and my hives didn't make the winter, but it seems to me that was a combination of bad dumb luck, and bad dumb management (one died earlier in the year, the queen just never started laying, one was from a late small swarm, became queenless late, and never really got going well enough to overwinter.) trying again this year with the same horizontal hives. I would like very much to try a standard top bar as well as a standard lang, just to see the differences. I think that there is something to be learned from all of them, and personal preference makes a lot of difference to what you end up using. It is frustrating though when the only experienced beeks in your immediate area will hardly even speak to you because you've chosen to run a non standard hive.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Re the overwintering issues, the reason given why long hives may not winter as well in a cold climate, is that the cluster can have trouble moving along sideways to new combs to get honey, whereas in a vertical hive, moving up the combs is easier for them. I'll bet that's why you've been told they won't winter as well, and there is some truth to it. So, next winter just be aware, and in your set up, you may need to check from time to time and if need be move some honey towards and in contact with the cluster.
    If things are super cold and the bees lethargic, they may not even uncap the honey when you move it so scratch a few cappings just to give them the idea.

    Hey if you want to build your own lang boxes, don't mess with finger joints just do rebated joints. That's all I have and they are strong and totally adequate.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    [...]the cluster can have trouble moving along sideways to new combs to get honey, whereas in a vertical hive, moving up the combs is easier for them.
    What sort of trouble and why?

    -K
    Kevin M. Pfeiffer -- Berlin, Germany

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,574

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    > Hey if you want to build your own lang boxes, don't mess with finger joints just do rebated joints.

    We learned from previous Oldtimer posts that rebated joints is an alternate term for dado joints. (In the US, rebate commonly refers to a discount or partial refund when purchasing a product.)

    Here is a rebate (dado) joint, although this illustration is a T joint. In a hive corner dado joint the uppermost end of the T would not be there.


    My Lang hives are made with dado joints, and they are certainly adequate for hives. Obviously you need good glue - Titebond II or III is recommended - and often there are staple, nail or screw fasteners as well.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    A "corner/edge dado" is a rabbet (American English for "rebate").

    -K
    Kevin M. Pfeiffer -- Berlin, Germany

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Oops thanks Radar, I'll have to work on improving my American.

    You have a remarkable memory by the way!!

    Or as per KMP, it's probably my faulty English, I did think of it when I wrote it but just went ahead bad grammar and all.

    Re- a cluster moving sideways-
    Quote Originally Posted by KMP View Post
    What sort of trouble and why?
    When it's cold, the cluster is in a roundish shape with bees tight on the outside. To move along a comb in a one box high long hive, they may have to break cluster and walk around the edge and to the next comb. If it's just too cold, they won't, and they starve, and this does happen. Moving up the existing comb, much less of a problem. Or even to a comb in the next box above, can be accessed without them having to break cluster so is achievable even in extreme conditions.

    By the way, in a two box vertical hive, the cluster is much more likely to be able to move sideways. This is because between the two boxes there will be gaps that will be closer to mid cluster, that the bee cluster can move sideways through without having to break cluster. (Depending on just where the cluster is positioned, doesn't always hold true).

    However I'm not wanting to turn this into a discussion of long vs vertical hives, just answering the question, plus hoping this will help people with long hives understand the issues and be able to achieve better wintering. And yes, I have some long hives myself, not for honey production though.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 03-03-2013 at 02:14 PM. Reason: re worded to express my meaning better
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  12. #92
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,523

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    +1 on Titebond III. That stuff is incredible. Never really understood the difference for the bees moving back versus up. I do understand it in a wall were they may have a single uninterrupted piece of comb that is 6 or 8 feet long, mostly what I have seen in structures is comb laid out more like that in a top bar, with row after row of comb that is 6 or 8 inches deep, and they move back further into the stores as the winter progresses. Seem that moving up through the comb in a lang means crossing gaps between the boxes. That may not be a big deal though. I do know that bees will chew through the comb to get direct access to the next bar of comb though.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,523

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Oops thanks Radar, I'll have to work on improving my American.
    Is it pronounced rabbit down there? I don't think I knew that it was spelled rabbet until I was in my 40's. Never understood why a rodent would prefer one joint to another.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Yes I've thought about it, I forgot the education I received in that thread Radar mentioned, it's all my bad English.

    Rabbet, rabbet, rabbet!!

    Actually in my own defence , in my first beekeeping job, we cut the boxes ourselves. Everybody I worked with pronounced the rabbet, as rebate. I think as a young guy that was probably ingrained into my psyche, and is the source of my on-going diction problems, LOL
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #95
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,523

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I think that is the English way of saying it, at least according to Wikipedia. Well, at least that is the way it is spelled.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kemp, Texas
    Posts
    62

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Look out for one more group If you are getting rude or "down their nose" comments, check to see if the person makes money from the sale of supplies or has a lot of money tied up in Langstroth hives. The reason I started out with TBH is to avoid a LOT of expense. I can see how some would have angst about us getting honey without spending all that money or buying supplies from them. I will be cleanly ready for honey, hive, books and equipment for under $150. That's less than a starter kit and it's final. Langstroth produces a LOT of honey. TBH makes enough to enjoy and is good for the bees. We each must choose and many who would run us down are just snobs.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,070

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I think there might be "snobs" of all beekeeping varieties LOL

    But most beekeepers are just plain old garden variety beekeepers. Even ones with langs, are not necessarily evil.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Statesville, North Carolina
    Posts
    60

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I quit going to the county bee keepers meeting when one fellow almost fainted over the fact that I had put bees I bought from him in a top bar hive. He went on and on about how I was making a mistake, and I was causing problems for other area bee keepers with my no treatment bee having!

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I am a first year beek and have yet to actually get any bees.
    the only negativity I have received so far was from the local bee supply store. I was told I was not smart for considering tbh (I had not yet decided which way to go, yet) and was shown a hive said to be a tbh in their showroom that was not doing well. As I did research I learned it was actually a demonstration langstroth that they had thrown top bars in and then had treated as a regular langstroth, not touching it again for some time. By the time they got back around to it the bees had cross combed and glued everything together into a large mess.
    As for the local beekeeping group, I actually followed plans provided on their website to build my TBH's. I have mentioned them once in meetings (there have only been two meetings so far since I joined in January) and while most there ignored my questions I think it was more because they had not clue how to answer them instead of some deeply hidden animosity. My only worry is that I have had problems finding someone to show me the ropes for keeping a tbh in my area and so am going to be flying by the seat of my pants here in about four weeks.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    longton, kansas USA
    Posts
    606

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by ositolud View Post
    My only worry is that I have had problems finding someone to show me the ropes for keeping a tbh in my area and so am going to be flying by the seat of my pants here in about four weeks.
    i fu really have no support or mentor especially for the TBH...i personally would recommend starting with langs. im not against tbh's and we are putting our swarms/cutouts in them this year. but, my point is that you are entirely new to such a stewardship that it could almost certainly be tragic with out A) support or a mentor and or B)experience in beekeeping. trust me...this is yr 3 for us and we learn every day what NOT to do hahaha. just go with what is readily available instead of turning ur new passion into a tragic statistic


    just lookin out...because we need more backyard beeks.

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