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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    Madison County, AL (USA)
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    9

    Default Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH? Just curious how common this experience is.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,169

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    What don't they criticize or mock you for? actually a TBH is the only thing I think I have not been criticized for. Rader where are you? your slipping.

    By the way. never follow the advice of criticism. it is entirely unreliable. Is not given with your best interest in mind. and probably has little concern for your success.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
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    246

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack London View Post
    Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH? Just curious how common this experience is.
    Oh yea! Doesn't bother me because I learned 2 important facts about people in general a long time ago; People are afraid of 1) what they don't understand & 2) anything out of their comfort zone. Both are easy fixes, only need an open mind & a willingness to learn. Sadly those are getting harder to find.
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    626

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack London View Post
    Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH? Just curious how common this experience is.
    In a backhanded way, yes. "When you get tired of fussing with those you will move up to a REAL hive" Meaning a Lang.

    I must admit this is part of the reason I didn't join the local bee club. I just didn't want to deal with it yet. I might join this year anyway. I think I have learned enough to evaluate beyond the bias.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    owensboro,ky
    Posts
    2,240

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    the only beekeepers i have seen complain of being criticized or mocked are the ones that read a book and want to tell other beekeepers that _____is the ONLY way or is the "best" or "smartest" way.
    if one looks "down their nose" or has an attitude of smugness or superiority they usually get a poor reception no matter what the subject.
    my experience with established beekeepers has been uniformly excellent.
    "Wine is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy" Ben Franklin

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    never follow the advice of criticism. it is entirely unreliable.
    Good advice; take it to heart.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by beeman2009 View Post
    Both are easy fixes, only need an open mind & a willingness to learn. Sadly those are getting harder to find.
    Sad, but true.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, CA
    Posts
    78

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack London View Post
    Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH? Just curious how common this experience is.

    I generally feel bad for the KTBH folk, but don't mind them unless they're annoying about it.

    In my neck of the woods, there's a certain precocious self-righteousness characteristic of KTBH keepers, who have been convinced that apian salvation lies in the shape of the box, and miss no opportunity to preach the gospel.

    I recall one recent newcomer to our meetings, who would introduce himself and proudly state "I'm using a KTBH, and my bees don't have varroa".

    He's a first year keeper.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Madison County, AL (USA)
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Thanks to all for the responses so far.

    I have talked with multiple beekeepers in my area.

    I have heard many colorful descriptions from them about TBH. ie,

    "the ABSOLUTE WORST way to keep bees!"

    "the wrong way to do it!"

    Also, people who use TBH "have no sense".

    I just didn't realize there was so much negativity out there.

    Part of what intrigued me about all of this is that in the beekeeping books that I am reading right now, many of them refer to Langstroth as "the father of beekeeping". When one reads that title over and over again, one would almost think that it was impossible to keep bees before Langstroth ever came around!

    Don't get me wrong of course. I am actually in the process of getting a Lang hive myself and I certainly respect the rich history, overwhelming signficance, and wisdom behind it. But my God...some beekeepers act as if you're doing it all wrong if you don't spend hundreds if not THOUSANDS of dollars upfront for a single hive alone. Maybe they should explain that to the bees.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,593

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    >Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH?

    Yes. It used to happen all the time on here until Barry cracked down. Someone would ask a question about something to do with a top bar hive and the next 20 posts would be people putting down the whole idea of a top bar hive. It made it very difficult to have a conversation about how to manage a top bar hive... Thanks Barry.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,583

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    actually a TBH is the only thing I think I have not been criticized for. Rader where are you? your slipping.
    If that was directed at me, I have no reason to criticize anyone for simply having a TBH. In fact, I have 3 TBHs myself.

    Daniel, when I post "interesting" past quotes that you have made, its almost always in response to an insulting (or outrageous) comment that you have made, (though not necessarily directed to me). If you don't like me bringing up those past embarrassing quotes of yours, simply stop posting insulting comments.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    hinesville ga usa
    Posts
    380

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    [QUOTE=Jack London;886011]Do other beekeepers ever criticize or mock you for having a TBH? Just curious how common this experience is.[/

    My two sisters and I started beekeeping about the same time four years ago, all of us started with TBH boxes. We have all been given the cold-shoulder by Lang beekeepers. One night at a church dinner a local beekeeper and I started talking about bees and had a friendly talk about the subject until I said I had TBh, and without saying another word he turned and walked away.
    My sisters went to a beekeeping club and some were friendly, but most were not and some came right out and said they didn't need to be keeping bees in a tbh, they were made to feel very unwelcome.
    When I first started keeping bees I wanted to learn from others so I e-mailed a local club and they seemed very upbeat and friendly, until I told them I had TBH, I never heard another word from them.
    As for the three of us, we are open minded and have tried Langs. We find that each has advantages and disadvantages and that for us a combination of the two works well. On the other hand Lang beekeepers insist that it is their way or the highway.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN, USA
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    We have several top bar hives. And we've had off-hand remarks made about them from other beekeepers. When this happens, I ask that person how many top bar hives they have used and they usually walk away. If they have actual experience with this type hive, I'm happy to talk to them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego, California USA
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Not criticized per se. I have met with 2 arguments over my TBH.
    1. Bees work hard enough as it is, you destroy their comb and make them rebuild (8 # honey = 1 pound wax, etc)
    2. You kill brood each time you extract since the queen will lay all over the hive.

    At the conference of the 2013 American Honey Producer's Association I had a conversation with Les Crowder of New Mexico..Top Bar Beekeeping. He presented in a straight forward intelligent way citing stats and research which address the objections. Naysayers have helped me be aware and led me to research their objections. I've come to understand the arguments against top bar beekeeping and am able to address them in a non-emotional way. That's been helpful. Also, understanding that methods are bound to vary depending on your purpose.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN, USA
    Posts
    318

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Our queens don't lay "all over". We harvest bars that are solid honey, not honey mixed with brood. I can't argue with the wax destruction part.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada BC Delta
    Posts
    447

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    I can't say that anyone from my club has ever directly criticized me for using TBH's. To themselves they may. Our club is pretty progressive with expectations that respect is given to all.
    I've given a number of demonstrations at the club and have found that most everyone is interested in how they work and ask many questions even though they're not necessarily interested in ever trying one.

    I think everyone is way better off to command respect rather than demand it.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego, California USA
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    It is a misconception held by some beeks who have not used tbh's that the queens lay all over in a TBH. Great opportunity for education

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,593

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    >1. Bees work hard enough as it is, you destroy their comb and make them rebuild (8 # honey = 1 pound wax, etc)

    But drawing comb is what they do. They are not sitting around the hive whining that the beekeeper took their comb, they just make more.

    >2. You kill brood each time you extract since the queen will lay all over the hive.

    Which, of course, she does not. I've never harvested any brood from any of my top bar hives. I've only occasionally harvested small amounts of brood from my Langstroth hives and then it's my fault for not checking better.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forest grove, Ore USA
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upbONroWPic
    This is the first in a series of videos about skep beekeeping in Germany a few decades ago. Nobody has ANYTHING on these guys when it comes to "destructive beekeeping"

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Springfield, MO, USA
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: Ever encountered hostility from other beekeepers over your TBH?

    Unfortunately, I have seen some negativity toward TBHs. However, I have seen A LOT more negativity from the TBH owners who believe that their hive design is the best and that Langs are somehow the industrialization of beekeeping.

    I have both types of hives (vertical and horizontal) and I have tried running frames and top bars in each of those. It all works for the bees if I keep out of the way enough.

    Most of the negativity comes from those people who believe they have found the "right" way and want to convert you to it. It doesnt' matter what type of hive design they're selling when their mind set is such.
    Jeffrey Maddox
    www.MaddoxBees.com

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