Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

How many hives did you loose? How do they look now? Are they still going backwards?

24K views 66 replies 20 participants last post by  benstung 
#1 ·
I am looking for some updates on hive strength and overall losses.
Commercial guys only please.
Looking for reports out of california and texas.

Its been cold in both places and wondering how things are looking.

Our bees have not got much worse but have not got any better either.

honest reports only.
 
#3 ·
When this question is asked the first thought in the back of my mind is "What date are people basing their answers on?" When you answer the question its best to answer this question from a certain starting point. Is it from splits or packages? Is it from when the honey was pulled? How about when the last feed can for winter was put back in the shop?

In Keith's case his starting point is always "the last time the hive got a fresh coat of Blue paint"? :sleep:

Your "start" date helps give us all a relevant reference point to base comparisons on.:cool:
 
#5 ·
Your "start" date helps give us all a relevant reference point to base comparisons on.:cool:
This is a very important issue that I wish we could standardize as an industry.
Every year I am subjected to at least 4 surveys that include questions about winter losses.
There is all together WAY too much room for variation and fuzzy math without a standard definition that we all understand and apply to our situation.
So here is my formula, one that soley has to do with hive numbers and almost nothing to do with the calendar:

When I give you my "winter loss" I am actually taking the highest number of hives that you had in the previous year and comparing that number to the amount that sucsessfully makes it through winter.
What I am really reporting is ANNUAL LOSS.
My loss from peak numbers this year is 5.5% There is no fudging or waffling. The number going to Almonds is subtracted from the highest amount in the prevoius year right down to the swarm hived behind the barn.
No artificial dates or excuses.
Any thing short of that really gives us an unknown number because the dates and rules for counting are all over the place.
If you have 2000 hives on June 15th or when ever you hit your high number, and no more boxes are filled and take 1800 to almonds you have a 10% loss for the previous year.
Simple and meaningful.
:)
 
#9 ·
"This is a very important issue that I wish we could standardize as an industry."

Another item on the standardization lost would be if you filled deadouts in the summer and fall.

Say you do 100 splits in April and by the end of August 20 of them have queen failures. Now your at 80. Split 20 of those on September 1 and all 100 make it to the almonds. What's you data now? How are you different than the quy who didn't make up fall losses..... Besides being up $2800 in the almonds that is?
 
#10 ·
Started in spring with 1350 lost 100 or so through the summer, made a decent honey crop, everything looked great late august. Then apiguard arrived late and treatment was delayed until late september. Now 850 or so, 600 look ok 7-8 framers, the rest at least 5 frames. Took to Texas a month ago and hope they are holding up.
 
#12 ·
As I was typing I see Keith was thinking the same thing about Harry's loses. Having a equal playing field would help when answering questions. Unfortunately we all hold our hive tools at a different angle and given the disparity in how most people judge things its no wonder that there is "clouding" in all these "surveys." An objective and true answer can only be gathered by a silent team of people who do not divulge the questions to be answered as they gather the data. Best if they do not have a hive tool in their hand during the whole year as they "watch" over the people they are surveying.
 
#13 ·
Im not from Texas or California , but right now I wish I were, . . . burrrrrrr, . . .

Anyway, I count my "winter losses" from the number of hives into winter, and simple math with the alive hives out of winter.
I rather not count my annual losses. From my peak spring time numbers, June, til fall, I tend to have 10% to 20% fall off. And then usually another 20% during the winter.
But its busy busy busy building back those hives during spring

5% Harry, now your probably not counting the June nucs that are filling those losses are you,
 
#15 · (Edited)
So many good responses, all very different but point clearly to the fact that over wintering surveys say NOTHING OF VALUE!
Eastside's bees were all perfect and a bear wiped them out. Come on,,,;we're not going to count that ;are we?!!
Keith and Harry get on the bees and stay on them, stay on them, stay on them right up till it's too late: CHEATERS!!!
And how about plugging in nucs? Is that a combine that would mean one loss or is it a seasonal beekeeping manipulation? :p
And here is another >>story<< for you to digest:
If I were to honestly answer many winter loss surveys by their oddball parameters, my answer would normally ZERO. Even in the years that I have suffered 17% loss or 20% loss, those losses were taken in the fall.
My 5.5% losses were all taken in the fall this year. Mainly queen issues.
Last year I had a 17% loss. All in the fall.
Year before, broke my record of 2.8% , at 2.6%. All taken before the hives were wrapped.
What I see in the last look in November when the hives are wrapped are what I have in the spring, year after year.
Sorry to say this to my fellow beekeepers, but....
If "winter losses" come as a surprise, your outfit is out of control in my opinion.
It's not CCD, not Disappearing Bee Syndrom.
Its a bad case of TOO MANY BEES TO KEEP TRACK OF syndrom.
Don't hate me but I see it all of the time. :/
 
#18 ·
So, I'm curious Harry......how many hives do you run, how many employees do you have ...?
Exactly one hive more than you. One employee more than you.
Thats my standard answer to those questions when they magiclly appear in these discussions.
That way, no one can use my answer to fall into excusism.

"Really! You have only half the bees I do?!! Why, If you were running as many bees as us you would be losing bees like crazy!!"
My answer saves a lot of people a lot of typing.
I run just as may bees as fit my operational scale, and that I can TAKE CARE OF PROPERLY.

You're welcome! :D
 
#19 ·
Harry: just having a little fun with you. Actually I agree wholeheartedly with your statement about losses although I assume that what Benstung is really getting at is if anyone else is seeing abnormally high losses from their strong summer hives.
Losing hives is a normal part of beekeeping and has been as long as people have been keeping bees. Our yearly "high water mark" is after all the nucs are made up in early April. It is pretty common to have in the range of 10% that don't catch a queen in the first 6 weeks a few of those attributable to the move north, another 5% attrition through the summer and fall, another 5 to 7% attrition from late fall throug the winter. Of the remaining hives usually about 70 % grade out good enough for Almond pollination the other 30% are mostly 4 to 6 combers the majority of which will grow quite quickly into a "splittable" single by mid March.
So I suppose my annual losses among queenright colonies are somewhere North of 10%.....or maybe it's 20%. Frankly I don't really care, I only know that we always have more than enough bees to make up our empty stuff. As far as this year is concerned our bees have been running a bit better than those numbers.
 
#23 ·
I agree with Ian, So that being said I'm running better then normal about 16%. They look good and eating pollen sub.
I have a Fall loss number, and a winter loss number. Since I'm always growing March thru August I don't really know what my peak number is until August or September. Sadly to say. Some get lost in the Move of things. Eventually they all come home.
I'm probably one of those beekeepers that Harry refers too as I run too many hives and can't keep track of them all. I have 1 full time employee and up to 4 part time employee's in the summer and thru out the year.
 
#24 ·
well it seems none of you experienced what we did.
Good hives gone bad in no time. they made a honey crop and fell apart.
i have now made my conclusion that this was due to higher than normal chemical use by crop farmers and zero rain to wash the residues away.

yes i understand that the bees can be made up just as quickly as they die. we cant continue to count on that.
we need to see these signs and find a solution.

its obvious something happened this year. there are thousands of hives missing from the almond pollination. and i want to know why?????

I mean Kieth come on your so in tune with bees and beekeeping you must be hearing it all over the place. how come *********** didnt send bees to CA this year? or how about ********** ****. O yeah and ***** ***** only sent 2 loads??

give me some real info....

no more bull ****
 
#28 · (Edited)
I mean Kieth come on your so in tune with bees and beekeeping you must be hearing it all over the place. how come *********** didnt send bees to CA this year? or how about ********** ****. O yeah and ***** ***** only sent 2 loads??

give me some real info....

no more bull ****
What.... are.... you....talking .... about....


P.S. I know the answer......... they didn't use Nutra-Bee
 
#26 ·
Benstung: If you figure "high water" mark to "high water" mark on an annual basis we lose zero. If you figure "high water" mark to what makes it into almonds we figure a 20% loss plus or minus a little. This year for some reason we have more hives that will make it into almonds by quite a bit, however, my personal feelings are that we may not have quite the overall strength as last year. I have spoken with several of the larger commercials and at least some are anticipating higher then normal loses.

Harry: One of my better friends is (as I believe you were if I'm not mistaken) a former inspector that still runs bees. We have had this same discussion. While he is far more respectful and far less sensitive about the topic, we are in complete agreement that there are many factors involved in typical annual "survival" rates.....locations, pollination vs honey production and numbers managed just to mention a few. I applaud your >5% survival rate......in my younger days I strived to do the same by doing it all myself. Unfortunately, I had loans to pay, kids to raise and a wife to care for and found it difficult to make it work when just starting out. I changed the operation by expanding, budgeting in loses and doing far less of the physical work myself. May be 'half assed' in your book but a winning formula for me. Personally, I'm in this business to show a profit.

Your welcome :D
 
#27 ·
I think it's important to note that the whole bee supply situation as relates to Almond pollination where over a million hives are needed is pretty hard for any one person to analyze. Beekeepers can be secretive and rumors travel pretty fast. There do seem to be more stories about beekeepers coming up short this year than most years. The people I talk to seem to think that there may very well be some shortages and the $200 figure may well be a reality in some scattered instances but on the whole prices may only go up 5 to 10 dollars over last year. That's just my guess and it's based on limited information.
 
#35 ·
. you can watch them cluster
Noop, warm'in up here putting 4lbs sub an a gallon and a half of straight sucros
Got a close freind in TEXASS, I've been helping him out on how to run bees, He told me over the weekend his are the best he's seen at this time of year. He said for the first time he is going to fill the whole 48ft truck up. :)
Ben, are you sure it's not the guy running the bees that has to do with the way they look?
 
#36 ·
It is all about location and business model. When a young man in North Dakota, most commerical guys would save 20% of their colonies to go to Texas after Christmas and the rest got gassed. Was that an 80% winter or annual loss? How many bees or colonies you have is not as important as when you have them. Taking losses in the fall is indeed admirable, but if you are in Canada where southern refills are not an option, one is going to roll the farmer dice and keep all those marginal colonies. What a bunch of grumpy old men!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top