How many hives did you loose? How do they look now? Are they still going backwards?

[Keith Jarrett]

we need to see these signs and find a solution.
I mean Kieth come on your so in tune with bees and beekeeping you must be hearing it all over the place.

Yes, I know why some have lossed Bees.

I have one question for you, did you have any mite or nosema problems between June-Oct ?

[Keith Jarrett]

Well, ben, you call me out in one of your post, and now your know where too be found..... the BEST way to fix a problem is embrace it not run from it.

[benstung]

yes keith i am clear to mexico at this point. there was no calling out. i just wanted to tap into your vast knowledge.

[Keith Jarrett]

i just wanted to tap into your vast knowledge.

I've been told I have vast &%#!$ but knowledge wasn't one of them they mentioned.

Let's roll the clock backwards on your bees Ben and let's find where things went wrong. We can fix this coming year by learning from last year. I was down below Fresno on Sunday, coming back north I stopped in to have dinner in Chow chila I heard some of the same stories as I heard else where from Beekeepers some say CCD is back, I say sloppy beekeeping never left.
So Ben, when you get back from Mex-heee-co let's get to work and we will find the problems with the bees.

[benstung]

Sloppy beekeeping eh. The only thing we could have done would have been to treat for mites in middle summer. besides that there was no slop.
in this situation the only hope is the genetics from the hives that survived should beeee exactly what we want. and that will help next year.
everyone will tell you that mites go in a cycles as do the bees that have to live with them and i hope this is true.
So when you were in Chow Chila you told those folks they were sloppy beekeepers? did they tell you to go fly a kite

[beemandan]

Just a curiosity Ben. If you had been able to knock back your mites during the summer…how much do you think it would have impacted your losses? Also…what could you use to treat for mites in a Texas summer?

[Ian]

>>I have one question for you, did you have any mite or nosema problems between June-Oct ?

benstung, Im also wondering what your mite counts and nosema levels were spring and fall,.?

[Keith Jarrett]

Sloppy beekeeping eh.

Why is it if you point out the truth about why a hive or outfit go's down that coulda been avoided your some how a bad guy??

[Ian]

if a fella does not know his disease pressures in his operation, I would call that sloppy beekeeping

[Ian]

before that comment gets me in trouble, Im generally speaking

[HarryVanderpool]

Why is it if you point out the truth ..........your some how a bad guy??

It all gets down to personal responsibility.
When I have hive losses, they are my fault, PERIOD!
There is a real refreshing and liberating freedom that comes from shedding the blame game and standing on your own two feet and manning up to ALL of lifes challanges.

We fired a guy severl years ago that was a great big strong fellow with loads of talent and capability on many levels but unfortunatly could not stay out of trouble. As much of a relief it was to have him gone, it was a loss as well.
The next day, I was walking through the plant and an engineer pointed to a machine and asked me, " Harry, when we have breakdowns, in what aspect of the machine is usually involved?"
I asked, "which machine?" He replied, "It makes no difference. Just in general; what aspect of our machines is likely to fail in the majority of instances?"
The answer is: THE CONTROL SYSTEM!
It is rarely the 480 volt motors, or gearboxes,. It is rarely the working end. It is usually on the low voltage control side.
Same with people. Think about it.
Some people just neverlearn to fly above the clouds. How sad.
So you fix those that are repairable, and bid farewell to others.
Did this answer your question?
:-/

[benstung]

in early June samples were tested from 16 hives came up with zero spore count for both types of nosemas. Also many hives were tested for mites and they were not out of control, no more than past years.

there is a lot of beekeeping that goes on outside of beesource. And because of that i know we are far from the only one's with out of control losses.

these losses are from all different sorts a beekeepers

[Keith Jarrett]

we are far from the only one's with out of control losses.
these losses are from all different sorts a beekeepers

Very true Ben, this spring is going to be a train wreck "for some" for others it's a golden nut harvest.

Ben, I wish you a successful 2013 season.

[benstung]

ok ok

[Keith Jarrett]

before that comment gets me in trouble,

No worries mate, I will save you a spot under the bus.

[Ian]

is there enough room under their ?

[Roland]

Benstung wrote:

in this situation the only hope is the genetics from the hives that survived should beeee exactly what we want. and that will help next year.

Good luck with that. You are assuming that next year will be like the last.

Crazy Roland

[borada bee doc]

Hi all. I've been watching this thread from the bleachers and would like to make a point that has been overlooked in support of benstung's bee management. Good hive management is a regional matter. For instance, studies in Alberta a few years back, suggested that pollen supplements in fall were economically a poor choice, as they did not affect hive overwintering. Beekeepers who heeded this advise in Southern Oregon, however, saw significant hive losses despite timely treatment of mites.

A study by Dr. Eisen of 200 colonies in southern California, comparing pollen supplementation, mite treatment, or both, demonstrated significant benefit from any of these interventions. A rough approximation of results is as follows:
1: control- outcome of most colonies dinks or deadouts.
2: mite treatment- 50-60% of colonies made grade for almond pollination
3: subs and syrup- 50-60% " "
4: mite, subs and syrup- 70-80% " "
You notice a significant difference between study results from Alberta and southern California.

My understanding is that benstung is from Minnisota where fall pollen is assumed to be more on the scale of Alberta. While supplemental subs and syrup will grow massive hives in California, in most years, this is probably unnecessary in his operation. Now, however, we see high temperature and drought conditions in his area, possibly some roundup ready crops with elimination of pollen producing weeds, maybe a little growth modifying or appetite inhibiting pesticides, maybe also some Idiopathic Brood Death Syndrome or new viral pathogen, and suddenly "he's not in Kansas anymore", well Minnisota anyway. This does not mean that his beekeeping is sloppy or that Keith's beekeeping is superior; it's bad luck in a vocation where you don't see the problem until weeks into the injury. With proper and timely intervention, you may be able to pull your bees out, but often there are so many variables that could be causing the dwindle, that it's really best guesses and a crap shoot.

I would reckon that if Keith unknowingly got some contaminated HFCS or heat processed rather than expeller produced soy flour in his subs, he could see dwindling too, and this would not mean that Keith was a poor beekeeper.

Hive losses may not be the beekeepers fault, but repetitive hive losses are. We've got some very successful large scale beekeepers in the Oregon who are also seeing losses and you can be assured that a lot of fine beekeeping practice and cutting edge science is incorporated into their operations.

Now, as for change for next year, do you manage Minnesota bees like they are in California or like they are in Minnesota. Last year was very unusual so normal management practices failed, but this observation is easier through the retrospectoscope. How can we identify an unusual weather pattern which essentially removes us from the regional climate which we have adapted our beekeeping practices to. Or, how can we identify when a harmful event has afflicted our bees...soon enough to modify our management practice. Oh, and once we see a problem, how do we determine the best practice alternative. Don't mention apiary inspectors as I would guess that many of you viewing this post could teach inspectors a few things. Well, lets bring our concerns up in a public forum and be turned to chopped liver by those who are having a luckier year.

To summarize a recent quote from the American Bee Journal, the successful beekeeper will be able to adapt to a changing world. We're all in this together and if we are able to foster alliances to assist each other, we will be better able to cope with what will probably be tougher times ahead.

Andrew

[swarm_trapper]

[QUOTE=benstung;888354] Also many hives were tested for mites and they were not out of control, no more than past years.

Just wondering what does not out of control equate to in a mite wash?

[beemandan]

Well, lets bring our concerns up in a public forum and be turned to chopped liver by those who are having a luckier year.

Whoa Andrew! I saw one comment that was potentially critical of benstung...otherwise I see a lot of people asking questions....
In my case ben said the only thing he might have done differently would have been to treat for mites during the summer. I was curious how effective he thought that might have been in stemming his losses.
I think most folks reading and commenting are sympathetic and hope to make sure their own operations don't suffer the same fate.